Patman, would you please take the time to post all of your oil analysis like what I'm doing in my posts so that we can do a trend analysis on how each oil is affecting the wear numbers? I'd like to follow the history on that engine and analysis and get a full picture on just how each played out in comparision to the others. Thanks.
Schaeffer 10w30, 4800 miles, 95 Firebird Formula
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Patman
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Bob, I have an even better idea. I'm including all my results below, but in ppm/1000 miles instead. I'll only include the major wear metals since I don't have all day to crunch the numbers on my calculator.
That doesn't show the whole picture on the oil and wear imo. Wear #'s crunched down like that is fine but very incomplete. Myself, I like to see actual numbers without # crunching. This way it gives a more acurate picture on the overall performance of the oil and what other conditions played in it. Look at the way mine is layed out to see what I mean.
Get a chance, it would be nice to see a complete visual on all these numbers and how each came to be based on the oil qualities as well. Thanks
Get a chance, it would be nice to see a complete visual on all these numbers and how each came to be based on the oil qualities as well. Thanks
I think I would just run Pennzoil.
Patman it is unfortunate in our world that high standards and deep pockets are inversely proportional. The shallower the pocket, the lower the standard.
I don't see how this statement is relevant to this topic. Any particular reason you feel this needed to be injected here?
Patman
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You won't say that when you see my next UOA. Without the silicon contamination that this sample had, the next one is going to be much much better. I'm confident of that now.
Patman
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OK, here is my previous history with this car. The first three used oil analysis are from Terry Dyson, from the CAT lab he used to deal with. These are all from 2002.
Patman
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And here are my last two used oil analysis, done by Wearcheck Canada.
WOW!
can i ask what is the point in getting your oil analised if the numbers very so wildly?
i mean look at the additives, from test to test its all off by alot, so what does that say about your iron or lead and such? how can anyone know where they are if the numbers can be off as much as yours are.
on one hand you could have an analisis that says your decent, not good or great but just decent, andthen you factor in the varyations and then you see either your engines about to blow or your not making any wear metals at all!
thanks for your analisis's dude, you just killed any thoughts i had of ever getting my engine analised. well, atleast untill the labs clean up their act and produce consistent results.
maybe tbn is the only reliable test i see up there. we could try and factor in accuracy, and lab errors and such but to me thats bs. if someones going to shell out $30 for an analisis it should be accurite.
can i ask what is the point in getting your oil analised if the numbers very so wildly?
i mean look at the additives, from test to test its all off by alot, so what does that say about your iron or lead and such? how can anyone know where they are if the numbers can be off as much as yours are.
on one hand you could have an analisis that says your decent, not good or great but just decent, andthen you factor in the varyations and then you see either your engines about to blow or your not making any wear metals at all!
thanks for your analisis's dude, you just killed any thoughts i had of ever getting my engine analised. well, atleast untill the labs clean up their act and produce consistent results.
maybe tbn is the only reliable test i see up there. we could try and factor in accuracy, and lab errors and such but to me thats bs. if someones going to shell out $30 for an analisis it should be accurite.
Patman
Staff member
Who says labs don't produce consistent results? How do we know the varience isn't in the blending of the oils? Different batches made at different stages will show different levels, since most oil companies continuously tweak their formulas.
Besides, I don't see the wild varience you are referring to, it looks to me like Schaeffer Oil is pretty consistent in it's additive makeup.
Besides, I don't see the wild varience you are referring to, it looks to me like Schaeffer Oil is pretty consistent in it's additive makeup.
Patman
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At the risk of sounding like I'm making excuses for this oil, I think I have another idea of why my lead numbers weren't as good this interval.
A lot of times in the past few months I've gotten in a lot of heavy traffic, and when that happens, my oil temperature gets to at least 230F for sure (I know my coolant gets that hot, so my oil must be even hotter). But then what happens is that the traffic clears, I'll often immediately start driving the car hard, going full throttle all the way from a dead stop to beyond 70mph a few times.
During this time, with the oil temps so high, I'm sure my oil is very thin. This is a case where I wish my oil was a bit thicker. Schaeffer Oil advertises this oil as being between 10-12cst, but so far all the batches I have gotten have been in the 10 to 10.3 cst range. No disrespect to Schaeffer Oil, but I seriously doubt that their oil can have an HTHS of 3.5 if the viscosity is at 10cst. So when they list the spec of a 3.5 HTHS, but also list the range of viscosity at 10-12, I'm sure the batches which come out at 12cst at 100c are the ones which pull the 3.5 HTHS number. I just wish I could get the batches which come out at 12cst!
(who knows, maybe the two cases of 5w30 I just bought are now like this, since I have yet to do a used oil analysis on this batch yet, so I'm crossing my fingers!)
So as a result, I am now paying much more attention to details like that. I still love going full throttle in my car as often as I can, but I will no longer do it when the oil is super hot.
[ July 11, 2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
A lot of times in the past few months I've gotten in a lot of heavy traffic, and when that happens, my oil temperature gets to at least 230F for sure (I know my coolant gets that hot, so my oil must be even hotter). But then what happens is that the traffic clears, I'll often immediately start driving the car hard, going full throttle all the way from a dead stop to beyond 70mph a few times.
During this time, with the oil temps so high, I'm sure my oil is very thin. This is a case where I wish my oil was a bit thicker. Schaeffer Oil advertises this oil as being between 10-12cst, but so far all the batches I have gotten have been in the 10 to 10.3 cst range. No disrespect to Schaeffer Oil, but I seriously doubt that their oil can have an HTHS of 3.5 if the viscosity is at 10cst. So when they list the spec of a 3.5 HTHS, but also list the range of viscosity at 10-12, I'm sure the batches which come out at 12cst at 100c are the ones which pull the 3.5 HTHS number. I just wish I could get the batches which come out at 12cst!
So as a result, I am now paying much more attention to details like that. I still love going full throttle in my car as often as I can, but I will no longer do it when the oil is super hot.
[ July 11, 2003, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
Patman my friend, don't lose sleep over this stuff. I really think you are over analyzing all of this. There really is just too many variables to really know what is going on. Viscosity isn't even necessarily proven to effect wear. Not to mention used oil analysis are limited. It's just not an exact science to really worry your self over. Just run your car and have fun!! A lead difference of 2pmm vs. 10ppm won't make your engine last any longer.....thas just my opinion.
Patman your iron, lead and silicone seem to be really high. The iron and lead would have me worried. What is considered normal for this engine?
Patman
Staff member
Those levels are close to normal. This high silicon level is an anomoly though, it's going to be lower next time. It was high this time due to the spark plug change (antiseize getting into the cylinder plus dirt too) and due to the air filter change (I had to take the intake tubing off for 10min to do it)
So more than anything, the silicon content hurt the numbers, but this next time around the silicon should settle back to normal.
I'm trying to decide when to sample the next one though. Should I sample it at 5k and then 8k (it's coming out at 8k-just before winter) or should I sample it at 3k and 8k?
This post caught my eye and I must say Ryan is right (I think).
Let's compare the two engines Ryan mentioned:
5.7 Liter LT1= ~5.5 qrts of oil. This mean the LT1 has a ratio of .964 qrts of oil per liter.
1.6 Liter Honda= ~4.0 qrts of oil. This means a ratio of 2.5 qrts per liter.
I concluded two things from the above:
-The LT1 and even the LS1 has a great disadvantege when it comes to being "easy on oil", due to having less oil per cubic inches. Not only is there less oil in the big V8s, but it also has to travel more distances and do so more often.
-If the above is true (which it obviously is), then it is safe to say we have been comparing apples to oranges. You can not judge the wear numbers of the two engines mentioned against each other and expect them to be equal. It is just mathematicaly impossible; there is more surface to be worn and less oil to keep the metals in suspension on the LT1/LS1.
So, what I'm suggesting is to create a table that compares wear by the ratio of CI/Qrts of oil. But the problem is that not all engines are created equal....so this is where I ask for suggestions.
Rick
Ps: Ok guys, this post consumed my brain power allowance for the rest of the month.....so, I'll be in a coma for about 15 days or so.
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