Schaeffer 10w30, 4400 miles, 95 Firebird Formula

[Patman]

Here are my latest oil analysis results on my car, done by Wearcheck
Mississauga (also with interpretation to be done by Terry Dyson). I've
included the 740 mile baseline sample on the oil, and the final result
at 4400 miles to see how the oil fared over the interval. This is my second
interval with BobZoil (Schaeffer Supreme).


Here is the data:

1995 Firebird Formula
350ci LT1 engine, 275hp (unmodified), automatic trans
10w30 Schaeffer Supreme 7000 blend (SL formulation)
4400 miles on oil/81,000 miles on engine
3oz Auto-rx maintenance dose
K&N oil filter (oversize HP3002)
OEM AC Delco air filter
Oil was run from Dec 7 to Mar 16 (14 weeks)
Average of 314 miles per week
Top up oil was 1 quart (most of which was added right after the 740 mile
sample)
Oil capacity is 5.3 qts
This is my daily driver, with lots of rush hour highway traffic, and not
much full throttle driving on this interval (due to winter weather)
Car rarely sees short trips except on the weekends where it's started
stone cold once each day and moved from visitors parking back to my driveway, total running time of about 60 seconds each time
Extremely cold winter weather (most mornings below 10F, some mornings as low as -10F and car is always parked outside) and quite a lot of idling this interval (due to some very
bad traffic and a visit to the dealer for a new water pump)

code:

---

740 miles 4400 miles









Iron 10 25

Lead 3.5 7.8

Aluminum 3.9 6.2

Copper 1.5 3.3

Silicon 8.1 12

Nickel 0 0.1

Chromium 0.5 1.3

Titanium 0.3 0.2

Tin 0 0.6

Silver 0.4 0.3

Vanadium 0.3 0.2

Potassium 0.2 0.3

Sodium 2.7 26

Boron 3.0 4.0

Barium 0.5 0.4

Manganese 82 222

Calcium 1830 1670

Magnesium 19 29

Moly 102 97

Phosphorus 857 765

Zinc 967 927

Sulfur 2773 2698

Fuel 0% 1.0%

Glycol 0% 0%

Water 0% 0%

Sulfation 42% 60%

Oxidation 37% 51%

Nitration 15% 39%

VI 150 129

Vis @ 40c 60.9 69.4

Vis @ 100c 10.0 10.1

TBN 5.23 2.90

---

note: this lab's TBN is lower (D-4739 scale).

As you can see, winter weather just kills an oil! The lab did tell me to change the oil if I had not done so already (due to the TBN). It was interesting to see that the viscosity at 100c didn't change much (especially with 1% fuel in it) but that the viscosity at 40c changed. This oil wouldn't have flowed nearly as well in the extreme cold at the end as it did when new. The coldest temps of our winter were in the last few weeks too.

They use a lot of road salt here, and I think that shows in the results too.

I am currently running an 1800km (1100 miles) interval with Auto-rx and
10w30 Schaeffer Supreme (and an AC Delco PF1218 filter), and then will
be running an 8,000km (5000 miles) interval with the same plus a 3oz maintenance dose of rx and a Carquest premium oil filter (same as NAPA
Gold). I expect this next interval to show drastically different results. Winter weather is definitely not easy on the oil, like I predicted at the beginning of this interval.

[ October 08, 2003, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Ryan00TJ]

Everything looks pretty good considering the cold weather your subjected too. I find it very interesting how the oil had thickended up in 4,400 miles. I wish more labs would provide the Visc at 40c to see how well the oil can protect in colder temps compared to new oil. I'm starting to like your idea of 2 oil changes per year one before winter for the benefit of new oil and another in the spring for summer usage.

 

[Patman]

Yep, those doing one oil change per year aren't doing themselves any favors if they see cold temps like I saw this winter. Only those in warm climates can safely do one oil change per year.

 

[Whimsey]

Patman,
You just made up my mind as to whether to change my oil, Ford 5W-20, @ 2,500 mi or go 4-5,000 mi. I'm changing it now. Like you, we had a miserably cold and snowy winter. Plus my trips were shorter than usual and in 4WD alot. I'll let my next oil change go to 5,000. That will be through the spring and a good part of summer. I'll have the oil tested then. It only costs me $22/oil change @ the dealer and he uses bottled oil, not bulk. Plus he takes me right in so the oil is still reasonable hot. That $22 is cheap insurance.

Whimsey

 

[Patman]

The scary thing is I don't do short trips. My round trip to work each day is 50 miles, all highway.

So these numbers would be even worse if I was doing shorter trips.

 

[Greg]

sodium 26?!?!?!?

 

[Patman]

This lab charges $27CDN ($18US), so it really is a great deal. I got that special by ordering 12 sample kits in advance.

I believe I have a very simple reason for the sodium number. They dumped TONS of road salt down this winter.

Jason, the poor quality of this report is not Schaeffer oil's fault, I don't believe there is any oil on the market that would've handled this brutal winter up here much better than this. Simply put, cold winter weather kills an oil, and after winter is over, you'd be best to drain that oil ASAP.

[ March 25, 2003, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Ken2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patman:

....
I believe I have a very simple reason for the sodium number. They dumped TONS of road salt down this winter.
....

---

So you need to use a better air filter?


Ken

 

[Pablo]

So, Patman, don't you think a true synthetic oil would have done just a tad better? Not asking this to be a smart a$$....just thinking of cold temp pumpability (flow)

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

So you need to use a better air filter?

---

Not necessarily. I've seen low silicon numbers from this filter last year, I just think that with the higher concentration of dust/sand/road salt in the air, that obviously more of it will get into the oil via the filter. In the upcoming months the roads won't be as dusty and certainly not covered in salt, so these numbers will be back to normal again.

Obviously when there is a higher amount of bad stuff in the air, a higher amount of it will get past the filter, no matter how good the filter is.

[ March 25, 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

That is a great price for an extremely comprehensive test! Do they have any divisions in the U.S.?

[ March 25, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
So, Patman, don't you think a true synthetic oil would have done just a tad better? Not asking this to be a smart a$$....just thinking of cold temp pumpability (flow)

---

Pablo, from the moment we got our first very cold morning under 0F, I was actually wishing I put in 5w30 Schaeffer oil instead of 10w30. I never expected the winter to be this cold here.

I believe 5w30 Schaeffer Supreme would flow just as well in -10F weather as most 5w30 synthetics would. It's cold weather specs are very good as you already know.

But I do see what you're saying, and I do agree, a fully synthetic oil will flow much better than a blend at the coldest extremes (-20F or colder) But at -10F and up I think Schaeffer oil can hang right there with the best synthetics.

[ May 12, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
That is a great price for an extremely comprehensive test! Do they have any divisions in the U.S.?

---

Yes, there are locations all over the world actually.

 

[Spartane]

Patman,

Have you noticed that the wear particle count is very disproportionate to the two times on the oil? It would seem that approximately 50% of the wear occurred during the first 740 miles.

For example,the lead at 740 miles was already at 3.5 but it only jumps to 7.8 (a difference of just 3.8) over the next 3600 or so miles. Other ratios seem similar - or perhaps I'm interpreting your results incorrectly?

 

[Jay]

I think you've found a great lab, Patman. I've been thinking that if an oil shears at about the same rate that it thickens from oxidation, then it may appear on an oil analysis report (where viscosity is only shown at 100*C) that the oil is shear stable when it isn't. Viscosity taken at 40*C and 100*C will reveal this. If the VI has decreased the oil sheared-- no matter what the 100*C viscosity says.

How much did your lab charge for this report?

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

This looks like one of the least impressive Schaeffer reports so far. Most are quite good.

Also why did the Sodium increase so much??

 

[Patman]

I've noticed that trend on many oil reports where a sample was taken early. This is my theory on that. I think it's because when you change your oil, often a full quart of old oil remains tucked away in the nooks and crannies of your engine. So when mixed with fresh oil, if you sample it right away, it shows higher wear metals than you would think. If I had done a "flush oil change" where I ran a short interval first, the initial sample would not have shown that much wear.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

I think the oil still worked well in your engine Patman, the wear numbers don't look too bad . How do they compare to past testing ?. Like you said the TBN reading is a bit low based on their testing procedure. I think 6000 miles could have been possible though the oil was getting close to be being well used. I don't regard Schaeffers oil as being a long drain oil, although we've seen people talk about it going 9000+ miles. I think I would still change it at 6000 miles if I was running it in my car.

 

[MolaKule]

I think your right.


The new oil with its fresh additive package is cleaning the engine most efficiently right after addition of the fresh oil.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Idrinkmotoroil:
I think the oil still worked well in your engine Patman, the wear numbers don't look too bad . How do they compare to past testing ?. Like you said the TBN reading is a bit low based on their testing procedure. I think 6000 miles could have been possible though the oil was getting close to be being well used. I don't regard Schaeffers oil as being a long drain oil, although we've seen people talk about it going 9000+ miles. I think I would still change it at 6000 miles if I was running it in my car.

---

Previous used oil analysis for my car in warmer weather looked like this:

code:

---

Max 2400mi Max 3300mi Schaeffer 4300mi

Iron 15 5 14

Lead 19 14 7

Alm 6 4 6

Copper 4 3 3

Silicon 7 6 8

Vis 100c 11.4 11.5 10.2

TBN 8 8 6

---

These results were from Terry's lab, so the TBN is the higher scale. All oils were 10w30, the Schaeffer run ran from Sept to Dec, so it saw some very cold weather at the end of the interval. Max equals Maxlife oil, and between the first and second test, I ran Auto-rx (as you can see the wear metals came way down)

[ March 27, 2003, 05:37 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]