Sat in an S60R at the auto show

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Went to the South FL Int'l Auto Show yesterday. Overall, it wasn't anything great. No concept cars at all, and the Jeep ride exhibit was closed "due to weather". I guess Jeeps can't hanlde a few drops of water?
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Anyway, just as we were walking out, I decided to sit in a Volvo S60R, and loved it so much I didn't want to leave. The seats are just amazing, sporty and well contoured, yet very comfy, and the leather appeared to be of very high quality. Instrument cluster and center console were a bit dull and not on par with BMW quality, but I think I could get used to it. I need to test drive one to see how it handles...

Volvohead and others,

What's the tuning potential of this 2.5 turbo engine? If you just want some mild mods to not overwork this already high-output plant, what do you do? Just an aftermarket software/chip? What kind of hp and torque gains can you achieve, again, assuming no extreme mods?

And one more question - how's the torque steer in this car? Since it's haldex AWD, it means all the power is up front until slipping is detected...
 
Because it's a turbo, there is tremendous tuning potential for this engine. The stock engine is relatively conservatively mapped. A simple ECU flash upgrade from IPD or BSR should bring it up to 330-335 hp, with improved throttle response. If you add an aftermarket downpipe and exhaust, the output starts to approach 350 hp. To get much more than 350 hp requires an upgraded turbocharger. Get much past 400 hp, and you should start to consider upgraded rods.

Still, getting to 350 hp typically costs only a few thousand dollars, and will put you ahead of an M3 on most roads (and much more comfortable while doing it). The latter comes pretty much tuned out and squeezing significantly more out of one costs a fortune. Drawing 350 hp out of 2.5 litres is fairly remarkable. At that power strata, most of the competition is running heavier, thirstier, larger displacement V-8s.

I would not recommend tuning out an R until the engine has proved out and broken in in stock form, normally in 3-5k miles.

The R has absolutely zero torque steer from my experience. It is a very neutral launch. The only think most enthusiasts would like to see would be a higher RWD bias on launch. Because the drivetrain is so "sticky" in preventing wheelslip, don't expect tire burning launches and a little early bog. But the car more than makes up for it after the first two shifts.

This car has a very high tech computer-controlled drivetrain and chassis, with sensors just about everywhere reading every variable, and constantly adjusting each shock and the power delivery at each wheel about 500x per second. So, power can be anywhere, depending on conditions. It's a decided step up from the quattro system in my experience. However, this extensive computer assistance can be annoying and detract from ultimate performance to a trained, skilled driver. But it usually makes the average driver better, and can get the unsavvy out of trouble at times.

Putting in shorter, stiffer springs will transform the R into a bona fide track car. The stock springs are on the softer side, which allows for good road comfort. The active suspension settings are not a gimmick, and do tighten up the chassis considerably in advanced mode.

Ditching the OEM tires with a premium aftermarket set makes a world of difference and ratchets up handling prowess and feel a significant notch. Michelin Pilot Sports are a favorite upgrade tire.

The R's seats are the best in any Volvo, and Volvo still has the best seats in the business. So sitting in an R is about as good as it gets. I'll take the R's inside ambience over a 3 series or A4 any day. Consider the Atacama leather option, which is truly special.

I would disregard a certain sports sedan "test" a US mag did some time ago as regards the R. The test was conducted in 100+ degree heat, and with a decided bias towards one car in particular (which won even though it broke down during the competition). Turbos are notoriously bad performers in higher temps. In good temps (below 60F), this car is a rocket sled once 3rd gear is reached.

2007 is the last year for the current R, the current S60 platform, and likely the venerable white block. But the R's engine is probably the ultimate iteration of it.

Even though it is now at the end of its run and there are newer, fresher competitors, some claiming more base hp, for my money the R is still a best buy at the price, which is well below $40k in many instances. It sells heavily discounted from sticker (mid to high $40s) for the reasons that follow.

The other thing an R gives is exclusivity. Only around 3,000 are made each year, and it is relatively rare compared to the fleets of BMWs and Audis around most towns. It's its own little club. But it is a contrary Volvo in the sense that it is a high-performance vehicle for a brand that distains performance for safety. Most Volvo owners would never own one, and most don't even know it exists. Volvo makes little effort to promote it. That only adds to its uniqueness in my opinion, and makes it a real sleeper to the unknowing masses. It is a quiet killer that can outrun a base Corvette in winter temps.

The most important aspect of owning an R is having a dealer that knows how to care for it. Because of the very limited production and rarity, most dealers do not know how to competently service it.

The R forum at SS is the home of the hardest-core R owners. They are the cutting edge as to mods and ways to improve the R's already formidable capabilities. While many there will post the various problems and quibbles they encounter, most folks don't post when things are right, most R owners don't hang out at SS, and most Rs made after 2004 are relatively reliable vehicles.

I hope this answers your questions.
 
Thanks for all the info, Volvohead.


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The most important aspect of owning an R is having a dealer that knows how to care for it. Because of the very limited production and rarity, most dealers do not know how to competently service it.



Yeah, that's one thing that scares me a bit since I would not be buying new. 2004-2005 is all I can afford. Turbo engines are very sensitive to the right oil and meticulous maintenance. Hence, I'm a bit hesitant. So, on that front, are oil-related engine/turbo issues common on the S60R?
 
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It's a decided step up from the quattro system in my experience.



Audi Quattro or VW 4Motion does not say anything about the technology behind it.
VW/Audi's with transverse mounted engines (TT, A3, Golf, Jetta, (new)Passat) also use the Haldex system. It's even got the latest version where 10% of the torque is at the rear wheels when there is no slip. Audi/VW has used Haldex long before Volvo started using it in 2001.
 
Oil-related problems are extremely uncommon in white blocks with SENSIBLE change intervals. In my humble opinion, the recommended 7.5k interval is NOT SENSIBLE for most turbo variants, and certainly not using a conventional oil. In an R, you should use a robust full synthetic, and at changes absolutely no longer than 5k without analysis. 4k is a "safe" interval. If you mod, oils like Redline and viscosities into the 40s become more recommended. Obviously, if you beat on the turbo all day long, you need to keep a closer eye on oil condition. The R has an oil level monitor with indicator, and senses but does not indicate to the operator (don't ask me why) oil condition.

Between an '04 and an '05, absolutely go after the '05. There are some very significant improvements to this vehicle after '04. If you want the full advertised torque, stick with the six speed manual. The slushboxes are slightly detuned, as they apparently could not cope with that much power.

A Volvo takes a heavier than normal depreciation hit the first year out, then holds up price better than most thereafter, and for a long time. So you either hold them long, or buy them used. You should be able to find a very nice '05 for somewhere in the mid to high 20s. Be sure it still has factory warranty, and try to get extended coverage through Volvo if you can afford it. This is not a cheap or easy car to repair, comparable to a higher line BMW or Audi.

If you ask on the R Forum at SS, they know the "R-friendly" dealers for most areas. Most of the more populated areas also have groups of R owners that will get together from time to time. And there are "group buys" and other collaborative efforts among them. It is a nice little group to belong to and a special car to have.
 
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It's a decided step up from the quattro system in my experience.



Audi Quattro or VW 4Motion does not say anything about the technology behind it.
VW/Audi's with transverse mounted engines (TT, A3, Golf, Jetta, (new)Passat) also use the Haldex system. It's even got the latest version where 10% of the torque is at the rear wheels when there is no slip. Audi/VW has used Haldex long before Volvo started using it in 2001.




I believe the second-generation Haldex system used in the R, at least in '04, was a step more advanced than what VAG was then offering. Combined with the active 4C system, the R was more seamless in operation. But now in '07, they may be the same, at least as to the AWD element. The pre-charged feature came out in '06.

BTW, Haldex is a Swedish company and Volvo has been using them for AWD models since the late 1990s.

One would hope the Swedes would be good at AWD.
 
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Only around 3,000 are made each year,



Wow, no kidding. I didn't realize how rare they are. No wonder I can't find any for sale. So far my search within 200 miles of Miami turned up one, from 2004, and for $28K
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quattro (real quattro, not the Haldex labeled "quattro" on some Audis), 4motion and Haldex differences:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4motion

I don't care for Haldex when compared to quattro. Handling is distinctively different and the torsen reacts instantly to unequal traction, before wheel slippage occurs. Had I liked the Haldex, I would have bought a TT. I also like the mechanical simplicity and reliability of quattro. For most street driving it won;t make difference, though. The Volvo surely looks pretty good and makes massive power.
 
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Only around 3,000 are made each year,



Wow, no kidding. I didn't realize how rare they are. No wonder I can't find any for sale. So far my search within 200 miles of Miami turned up one, from 2004, and for $28K
frown.gif





Contact Jim Levitt (handle JRL) on the R forum. He's a car broker and can likely find you one. It might take a couple of weeks, but they're out there. Try to find one with Atacama leather - you won't be sorry. Another guy to ask there is Lee (handle R Salesman), a former Volvo mechanic and salesman. Both are good guys. Don't be afraid to shop long distance, using a qualified intermediary for inspection if needed. If you post on the R forum that you want to buy a used R, there will be be 50 guys looking for you.
 
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BTW, Haldex is a Swedish company and Volvo has been using them for AWD models since the late 1990s.
One would hope the Swedes would be good at AWD.



Volvo didn't sell Haldex equipped cars until 2001.
http://www.haldex-traction.com/news_center/news_archive/010614.htm
Current cars using Haldex:
http://www.haldex-traction.com/about_us/haldex_traction_systems.htm

The Haldex system is great, so are our neighbors in Sweden
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More news from Haldex:
http://www.haldex-traction.com/news_center/news_archive.htm
 
Just like in that wiki, I guess you can say the matter is "disputed".

Volvo's 4C concept as applied in the current R is a little more than just a Haldex AWD system tied to a potent engine.

The R integrates the steering, ABS, engine, active suspension and AWD control systems with many types of sensors all throughout the vehicle, and then coordinates a computer-controlled response for them all, but in concert, 500x every second. The setup requires a fairly sophisticated computer bus by automotive standards. The bus speed was doubled starting in '05 for improved performance. The Haldex unit is just one small piece in this network.

There's a lot of electronics going on when an R is moving. Not your typical Volvo and something even the Germans might find a little complicated. That is why the dealer service department choice is so important with these special cars.

Volvo uses their R model as a test bed for cutting-edge technologies and concepts that may eventually wind up in their bread and butter models. Some might rightly call it the bleeding edge. It certainly was in late '03, when these cars first hit the streets.
 
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I know a few Subaru=>Volvo converts who were sorely disappointed in the winter traction of Volvo in winter conditions.






With all that snow in Florida . . .

I've not heard that one.
 
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Time to check in at the R Forum, search or ask:

http://forums.swedespeed.com/zeroforum?id=51

Biggest change I'm aware of is in the electronics.




Yeah, I already ventured over there, but the only things I found were:
1.) Throttle response in low RPM isn't as jerky on a cold engine in the '05.
2.) Suspension is more sorted out in the '05 in all three modes.

One other thing I noticed is an unusually large turning radius. I know I'm knit-picking here, but I thought I'd ask if parking is a PITA in this car.

Also, what's so special about atacama leather? Color-wise, this would never be my choice. I prefer dark shades of grey or black.
 
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