Safety,safety,safety, in your business and home

[CourierDriver]

No bad words, no sex, no religion , no politics. Real stories, real people,real newspaper, real towns. Omy.

The Armed Citizen February 5, 2013
2/5/2013
Cindy Schachter, an employee at Furnari Jewelers, was working when two men entered the store around 4 p.m. Schachter's boss, Anthony Furnari, was sitting at his desk facing the showroom. Something about the men made Schachter uneasy, so she gave her boss a quiet warning right before they pulled clothing over their faces and jumped over the counter. Furnari quickly pulled his .38-cal. handgun from his desk and fired several rounds at one of the suspects as he came toward him. Furnari was severely beaten as both men tried to gain control of his firearm. When Furnari fought back, the men grabbed a display of gold chains and fled. One suspect was later taken into custody after seeking treatment for several bullet wounds. It was last reported that the second suspect was still at large. Furnari suffered a broken nose, a concussion, multiple stitches to the face and hand, and a fractured rip. Schachter was reportedly unharmed. (The Republican, Chicopee, MA, 10/17/12)
The Armed Citizen Extra
Authorities say an Army veteran who uses a wheelchair wielded a pistol to run off a man who broke into his home near Athens. Mark Sikes, 53, was in bed at his home in western Clarke County around 1 p.m. Wednesday when someone kicked in his front door. Sikes said he reached into his nightstand and grabbed his pistol. He said he pointed the gun at the intruder and told him he should get out. Sikes said the young man "flew like a bat" and is lucky that he wasn't killed by the veteran. Athens-Clarke County police and Oconee County sheriff's deputies have yet to find the intruder. (The Augusta Chronicle, Athens, GA, 1/26/13)
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The Armed Citizen January 29, 2013
1/29/2013
Jack and Linda Dillon were roused from their sleep at approximately 2:45 a.m. when they realized someone had just broken into their home. The intruder gained entry through an unlocked window. He allegedly entered the home with intent to steal electronics. Linda called 911 as Jack retrieved a firearm and confronted the 29-year-old intruder in their living room. Jack fired when the man lunged at him. The intruder's wound proved fatal. (The Morning Journal, Elyria, OH, 10/2

 

[CharBaby]

This is sad to say the least!

I am hearing more and more of these types of break-ins, in quiet residential neighborhoods and small businesses alike.

We need to arm ourselves against intruders.

 

[eljefino]

I'm noticing most "guns are good" arguments are anecdotally based and not statistically.

 

[JHZR2]

Yeah. More and more of these? The first story was a lousy ending. They probably would have grabbed the chains and fled anyway. That's what they wanted anyway.

If safety was so important, the last couple would have locked their windows.

 

[greenjp]

Don't you know el jefino, anecdotes and personal experience count for evidence 'round these parts. Keep your "science" and "statistics" from those fancy universities and jack-booted gummint bureaucrats outta here!

Here are some more interesting stories about firearms in homes:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/houston-philadelphia-kids-accidently-shoot-home/story?id=17942495
http://www.wtoc.com/story/20941926/child-fatally-shot-in-head-in-accidental-shooting
http://theadvocate.com/news/police/4980795-123/br-toddler-shot-in-accidental

jeff

for the record, as I've stated numerous times, I'm a proponent of private gun ownership rights. I just find the level of discourse most prevalent on my side to be distressingly poor.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

So quick to kill you fellow humans. Oh, well there are too many of 'em anyway.
I wouldnt want to live or die knowing I killed someone just looking for meaningless material things or food, intentionally.

 

[CourierDriver]

very good points stated above. I to do not like to have to be armed in my home. As a kid growing up in another part of Chattanooga , locking the house was not done much. But today in that same neighborhood, you cannot live like that anymore. Honesty, integrity, manners, responsibility, divorces, and other in your face drugs, its not the America I grew up in anymore, sad but true.

Bottom line: do not take your neighborhood for granted that it is safe, its not, repeat, its not x 100.

 

[tdpark]

The problem is that the person who is willing to break into your home and get your food and stuff is usually the same person who will kill, rape and maim the people in the house they are robbing. You think a robber is going to come in and be like- oh i will not hurt you, i just want some food and your big screen tv and i know you will not try and identify me to the police so i will not kill you.

 

[javacontour]

Just like the guns are bad arguments are anecdotal based as well.

Post some stories about what the criminals are doing with guns (anecdotes) and then you have a group who wish to ignore the stats that the majority of gun owners, even those with the so call "assault weapons" and large capacity "magazine clips" are not the problem.

Instead of dealing with the people problems, the gun grabbers think they can solve the problem by taking the tools away from those who are by and large, not committing the gun crimes.

So which group is short on statistics and long on anecdotes? From my corner of the internet, it looks like the gun grabbers by and large base their argument on emotion and anecdotes far more than those who argue that law-abiding gun owners should have fewer not more restrictions.

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm noticing most "guns are good" arguments are anecdotally based and not statistically.

 

[eljefino]

I'm not bringing in statistics b/c I know I'm not changing anyone's mind with them. (how's that for a cop out?

)

It's just sad that we think drug-crazed people are sub-human zombies rife for shooting. I would take that approach, in self defense mode, in the dark when I hear a thump in the night but not in daylight philosophizing on the state of current affairs.

The difference between anecdotal vs statistical debating is not taught much in schools. Nor much other critical thinking.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
So quick to kill you fellow humans. Oh, well there are too many of 'em anyway.
I wouldnt want to live or die knowing I killed someone just looking for meaningless material things or food, intentionally.
Yeah, sure, so you get to DIE yourself because the lowlife don't want a witness.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: tdpark
The problem is that the person who is willing to break into your home and get your food and stuff is usually the same person who will kill, rape and maim the people in the house they are robbing. You think a robber is going to come in and be like- oh i will not hurt you, i just want some food and your big screen tv and i know you will not try and identify me to the police so i will not kill you.
We aren't dealing with priests and nuns, Rhodes Scholars, or religious charity workers here.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm noticing most "guns are good" arguments are anecdotally based and not statistically.

I've noticed a lot of conservatives are former liberals who have been mugged. Sometimes it takes more than one incident. Slow learners. I've also noticed the amount of "anecdotally supported" evidence employed by the left when it suits them.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Yeah. More and more of these? The first story was a lousy ending. They probably would have grabbed the chains and fled anyway. That's what they wanted anyway.

If safety was so important, the last couple would have locked their windows.
Yeah, sure, that'll stop 'em.

 

[Boatowner]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm noticing most "guns are good" arguments are anecdotally based and not statistically.

Didja ever notice that ALL of the guns are bad arguments are anecdotal? Statistics? look at the real killers, like automobiles and doctors. How about stories about guns in the hands of the wrong people, like New York City police? What was it, nine bystanders hit in a shootout and every one of them by police bullets.

Okay, I get it, you are scared of guns. Don't get one, they aren't for you anyway.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Boatowner
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm noticing most "guns are good" arguments are anecdotally based and not statistically.

Didja ever notice that ALL of the guns are bad arguments are anecdotal? Statistics? look at the real killers, like automobiles and doctors. How about stories about guns in the hands of the wrong people, like New York City police? What was it, nine bystanders hit in a shootout and every one of them by police bullets.

Okay, I get it, you are scared of guns. Don't get one, they aren't for you anyway.
THere is always a need for sheep.

 

[carwreck]

One multiple death story, one robbery death, one self-defense death...

4 dead in apartment
http://www.newson6.com/story/20564271/police

jeweler killed in robbery
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local...-135311333.html

mini-massacre prevented, armed 70 year old coach (reserve officer so he can own a gun) kills armed attacker outside school
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/03/det...outside-school/

Chicago has lots of information available, but I have not found where they track exact "self defense" stats. For example, 2011 report shows total 433 murders by type, but does not include exact stats where a murder is not "cleared" due to "instances where the offender is killed by the police or citizen".
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/...eports/MA11.pdf
https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/Crimes-2001-to-present/ijzp-q8t2?

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Boatowner
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm noticing most "guns are good" arguments are anecdotally based and not statistically.

Didja ever notice that ALL of the guns are bad arguments are anecdotal? Statistics? look at the real killers, like automobiles and doctors. How about stories about guns in the hands of the wrong people, like New York City police? What was it, nine bystanders hit in a shootout and every one of them by police bullets.

Okay, I get it, you are scared of guns. Don't get one, they aren't for you anyway.


Ok, well here's a stat, we're right in with some 3rd world countries there.

I'm not scared of guns, I have one, and it's so small I can get cheap ammo for it even today. Nope, I'm afraid of the 1-2% of the population with narcissitic mental disorders who are just so darn sure they're right. This comes from personal experience, I am sure there are more deadly mental disorders that mix poorly with weapons of all sorts-- I just know a well armed narcissist.

Well, d'oh... there's an anecdote!

 

[BISCUT]

Hmmm....Issues of gun violence most often do not reside with those who jump through the hoops required by law. Previous posters mentioned stats. If this argument were purely stat driven you'd have to ban Dr.'s and the way they practice medicine for they kill nearly 200k of us a year; all tobacco products and save 500k or more; alcohol products; and lets not forget car accidents that kill 35k of us a year.

What I find the most amazing is that the media does not offer unbiased coverage of the Chicago gun violence issue. There have been over 400 kids, 18 years old all the way down to 18 months old killed in Chicago. Apparently nobody let the bad guys know that Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country. Guess the bad guys don't care about violating the law.

Lets take into account the last 35 or so horrific shootings since Columbine. There is a singular factor that the amazingly enough, the media nor the anti-gun side is taking into account. That is that each and every single, THAT MEANS ALL OF THEM!!! Were on a psych drug...almost all were Zoloft, Prozac, Ridalin, or a generic version of same.

Common sense would tell me maybe its a good idea to end private sales of firearms; require an instantanious background ([censored], if we can determin a credit score in a matter of minuted we can sure run a background check within an hour); and not do away with gun shows (commerce is commerce), but you could always be issued a bill of sale for pick up at a FFL dealer at a later date. No hard done to anyone att he show.

Banning high capacity magazine or AR-15 isn't even close to a solution. Ban's in general will only raise the black market price. Please stop and think for a second. There are millions and millions of 30 round AR magazines out there as well as millions and millions of AR-15 rifles. Last numbers I saw there were something like 750k AR-15 sales from DPMS alone last year, never mind Rock River, LMT, Colt, Bushmaster, etc...

Let me tell you what scares the living [censored] out of me....a plain ol 308, 30-06, or 338WM bolt action rifle. Caus I know with certainty someome can take me out 100-600yards and further and my vest will NOT stop that bullet from killing me.

But hey, what do I know....I'm just another dumb cop.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: BISCUT

Lets take into account the last 35 or so horrific shootings since Columbine. There is a singular factor that the amazingly enough, the media nor the anti-gun side is taking into account. That is that each and every single, THAT MEANS ALL OF THEM!!! Were on a psych drug...almost all were Zoloft, Prozac, Ridalin, or a generic version of same.


True but I like my mentally ill people getting treated! How are we going to get folks who need it, in, if there's an implicit threat of them losing gun rights? (A shrink would have to declare someone "a danger to others" which is a hard call to make perfectly accurately. Particularly with an advanced sociopath who knows the right answers. Every shrink would declare a different % and to a patient going in for that first appointment it's intimidating.) It's the same as if someone saw a doctor for epilepsy and were afraid of losing their driving license... it could happen, sometimes just CDL but sometimes all classes.

This isn't a rhetorical question, its one that really needs a lot of study. And it's something that IMO the pro-gun people should jump on so they look like they're doing something that's other than putting more guns everywhere, a public relations issue.