RX 8 ENGINE OIL

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G'Dday i know this must have come up before but i need to know if 5w30 instead of 5w20 will make a difference in the 2005 rotary?
I am even thinking of going to 10w30 mineral as the valvoline tech dude says that 10w30 is the way to go in aus...
I find it kinda hard to get these grades 5w20 and 5w30 in mineral as i change my rx 8 oil at every 3100 miles but i can get my hands on heaps of 10w30 synthetic oil..
What are your thoughts on this - any help will be appreciated as I enjoy the little rice cookers' speed thnx in advance
 
Yep the renesis motor must under no circumstance be fed any sunthetic oil...wich makes it hard when you ask around for some advice and sometimes you even go with wrong advice which could be devastating.There are some blokes out there claiming to run synth oil in rx 8 cars, but i do not know if that is such a great idea:)
 
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Find the specification that Mazda says the oil needs to meet and use that only.

IIRC, they have to have oil changes at 3,000 miles no questions asked, right? Might be another car.

Go with what the manual states. If it's non-synthetic, then non-synthetic it is.
 
I was always curious, why does mazda recommend using only mineral based oil? Is it something to do with the apex seals, or something entirely different?
 
There was a post about this a few months back. I think the key to proper oil choice is that the oil will burn cleanly. But which ones burn the cleanest is the great mystery. Apparently, synthetics are suspect.
 
2 major concerns RE: rotary engines and oil is that (a) carbon deposits on the apex seals, and (b) certain oil blend will cause/contribute to apex seal chattering, which will scour the inner walls which will lead to failure (loss of compression).

Used to be (well into the early 90s), R.E. Amemiya has their own "house blend" of 10W40 specifically for Mazda rotary (no longer, dunno why).

However, Idemitsu still makes/supplies them:

http://www.rotorsportsracing.com/performancetuning/idemitsu.htm

RE: here in NA, back when Ford has stakes in Mazda, they exert a lot of control over the oil to be used across the board. One of the things that (I subjectively believe so) is the wrongfully enforce the idea of using 4-cycle reciprocal engine oil 5W20/5W30 onto Mazda rotary RX-8, which ,many of them lead to premature failures due to the 2 mentioned failure modes. Although most of them ended up being warrantied (rather unfairly) and a new/remain engine being installed, frankly, I think it's all to do with the wrong type of engine oil being used.

I've said it before and I'll say that again: rotary engine is a different beast compared to ordinary 4/2-cycle reciprocal engine. For that, oil requirements for rotary engine shall be different.

Failure to observe these fundamental differences between a rotary engine and reciprocal engine, and the lack (disregard) of proper lubricant used are what gives this otherwise ingenous design (rotary engine) a bad rap.

Q.

also remember this: lubricant oil blended especially for rotary engine use can be semi-syn or full-syn, depending on the blend/requirements. Ultimately, it all serves the 2 main purpose of keeping the apex seal clean(deposit-free) and free from chattering. DO NOT, under any circumstances, substitute with ordinary 4-cycle internal reciprocating engine oil for it does not possess any characteristics to serve a rotary engine's needs,regardless of whether it's syn or no syn.
 
Mazda's rotary engines inject oil into the combustion chamber on purpose to keep things lubricated. It injects at a higher rate at higher RPMs, so you'll often see the recommendation to regularly drive hard. Another option many people exercise is to add TC-W3 2-cycle engine oil to the gas tank. This will provide additional lubrication even when driving sedately.
 
Originally Posted By: the_rx8_guy
Yep the renesis motor must under no circumstance be fed any sunthetic oil...wich makes it hard when you ask around for some advice and sometimes you even go with wrong advice which could be devastating.There are some blokes out there claiming to run synth oil in rx 8 cars, but i do not know if that is such a great idea:)


Ill beat you to it: WHY?

ok it seems like it isnt a good fit.. hmmm, thats odd.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
There was a post about this a few months back. I think the key to proper oil choice is that the oil will burn cleanly. But which ones burn the cleanest is the great mystery. Apparently, synthetics are suspect.


This is true. Do not think you cannot use any synth, but clean combustion characteristics are counter to the way most oils are formulated for 4 stroke motors.

This engine burns oil deliberately as lubricant for those pesky apex seals. So whatever you use must burn CLEANLY.
 
I would give RLI a call to see if they have anything, or could formulate something for you that would work well. That's if you are interested in synthetics. Otherwise, I would go to a Mazda dealership and see what they service the engines with that work well.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
I've said it before and I'll say that again: rotary engine is a different beast compared to ordinary 4/2-cycle reciprocal engine. For that, oil requirements for rotary engine shall be different.


Which makes me wonder why they bothered with 5w-20 in the first place. Ford has at least a couple applications that specify 5w-50, and Dodge has some that specify 0w-40. Considering how low the sales volume was in the RX-8, it should have been a no brainer to specify a different viscosity.

As for synthetic, for those interested, there is supposedly some type of "rotary synthetic" out there. One can Google it.

What always struck me as a bit odd is that Mazda forbids even semi-synthetic, yet they specify 5w-20. Right.
 
There are Probably more reasons for the failures in early renesis motors than what I've loosely gathered over the period of owning one for 4 years.

And none of them have anything to do with the kind of oil injected.

Failure rates seem to have gone down considerably after Mazda issued new programmed OMP profiles which ended with MSP-16 (not 100% sure about that TSB number). This ECU reflash was reportedly to be done on unsold vehicles that were in all dealers inventory and an under good sticker applied showing the service was performed was to be added to the vehicle.

Some of Mazdas fear of synthetic oil dates back to the 70s when seal incompatibility between its rotaries and M1 resulted in engine failures and Mobil would not compensate Mazda for the costs associated with these failures.

I have also read that the deposits left from burning synthetics are harder and they have caused failures when they loosen and then collide with moving apex seals.

Although many rx8 enthusiasts do use Mobil 1 and other synthetics today. Some of whom know way more about it than myself and own businesses specifically catering to the rx8.

There seems to be this notion amongst rx8 owners that redlining the car often and using thick oil like 20w-50 will increase engine life. In my experience it's these guys who've rePlaced their engines more frequently than others.

Also it seems that early renesis engines had some poor QC related issues verified in measurements made during tear downs of failed engines.
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
I would give RLI a call to see if they have anything, or could formulate something for you that would work well. That's if you are interested in synthetics. Otherwise, I would go to a Mazda dealership and see what they service the engines with that work well.


Why do people insist on the dealership being any sort of place as a "golden rule" solution. I haven't seen a dealership employ a tribologist or an Engineer of any sort nor do they typically care about UOAs or OCIs (unless to make more money).

There are metering devices you can buy for the Renesis motor that will add oils like Idemitsu's product into your synthetic oil mixture at a predetermined ratio. The reason WHY has already been answered in two previous posts. (injection into the combustion chamber and lubrication of apex seals/prevent chattering).
 
Originally Posted By: INDYMAC
Otherwise, I would go to a Mazda dealership and see what they service the engines with that work well.


Good idea. Find out what they are doing, give you a baseline.
 
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