Rustproofing

Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
10
Location
Illinois
Other members have admitted that rust is a bigger threat to our cars than choosing the wrong oil - I would be interested in anyone's opinion on the best ways to prevent rust. I have looked at websites about electrical devices (such as counteract) and various kinds of coating materials (rust bullet, rust check, etc) - does anyone have any information on whether these are helpful, or if some methods are especially good?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
8,711
Location
Nothern USA
I don't see rust as being a threat to modern domestics. I have had good experience with my 81 Phoenix, rust free when traded on a 92 Grand Am, in turn it was clean when I traded it on an 02 Cavalier, which is still rust free. None of those even had the factory undercoating, just the standard treatment. Nor did they see the car wash frequently. They were all driven in much the the same salt as my 55 Nash, 57 chevy, 64 Triumph, 68 Chevelle, 71 Valiant, and 77 Chevy LUV, all rust buckets long before they were 10 years old.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
1,983
Location
New Brunswick
I see far too many cars rust out before their time, cars which had lost of useful life left in them, but their bodies and undercarriages were made so unsafe due to severe rusting that they had to be taken off the road and junked. If you buy an older use car, and if they use a lot of road salt in the winter as they do up here, then rustproofing is a very good investment. There are many different methods of rustproofing and it's quite hard to determine the benefits on one method over another, but Rust Check and Royal Krown seem to be 2 popular and trusted rustproofing businesses. It can get a bit expensive, at $109.99 Cdn per year, and it's recommended that it be done every year for best protection, it can be a bit hard on the wallet but if the body is in good shape and you'd like it to stay that way for many years then rustproofing is a sound investment.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
1,001
Location
Baltimore
quote:
cbird: Other members have admitted that rust is a bigger threat to our cars than choosing the wrong oil - I would be interested in anyone's opinion on the best ways to prevent rust. ....
Rustproofing on modern cars is generally pretty good. The enemies of steel are moisture and salt. Manufacturers used to try to seal panels and coat things with asphalt or rubber, and all that managed to accomplish was to keep the moisture where it could damage. It was common to grab hold of the undercoating on a loose edge and pull off a sheet with water underneath it. What I do on new cars is to go over the underbody when I service it and repair damage to whatever the coating is that came from the factory. For example, my beater is a '90 Honda Civic. I keep a can of cold galvanizing around. When I find rock or scrape damage to the underbody coating, I clean it down to bare metal and spray it with galvanizing. After I'm done doing whatever service I was going to perform on it, I spray the galvanizing with a light coating of a rubberized undercoat. I also make sure any drain holes are clear and remove pockets of wet debris that get in the nooks and crannies. When you work on old cars you've got a different set of problems. If you're planning on showing a restoration, you can't have a modern rustproofing where it can be seen. But panels that aren't showing can be cold galvanized. I also use a waxy oil over the galvanizing in some places. The only problems you run into with waxy oil is that it eventually dries out, which requires that you renew it, and under some conditions it will drip out onto the ground or where you can see it. Keep it dry and where you can't keep it dry, keep it protected. .
 

Kestas

Staff member
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
14,037
Location
The Motor City
Do a search under the Mechanical/Maintenance forum using the keywords "Texaco Rustproofing". I had a lot to say about this subject. Washing does little to keep cars from rusting in the winter. The only effective washing regimen would be a complete washdown after salt exposure, including all the nooks and crannies of the car. And realistically, how many people are willing and able do that in the dead of winter? Most people pick a nice dry day after weeks of salt exposure to wash off their cars.
 

VNT

Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Messages
258
Location
Maine
About the only thing you can do is spend some money on proper paint on the under carraige. If you crawl under a brand new car you will see alot of it isnt properly prepped. Most of the suspension and brake hardware doesnt even have a coating on it. So if you buy new, get the puppy home directly from the dealer and paint the underside while it is new and clean. Go visit Eastwoods and buy their Chasis black paint. Any good primer followed up by the Chasis black will do you well. Now if the car is used, then I would wash it down underneath with some simple green, allow to dry. Then wire brush any rusty areas and wash that with prep sol. THen use Eastwoods Rust encapsulator paint. This is the only stuff I have scene which will adhere and stop the rust. then follow up with the chasis black. All the other rust proofing stuff is just expensive gimmicks if used on the exterior. Fluid Film used on the interior panels to prevent the rust/moisture from forming on the inside is also a good thing to use inside doors, rockers, interior rear quarters etc. Of course some cars just have poor prep and paint from the factory, I know I had a 97 Nissan RustFinder, rust just expoded on the bottom edges of the doors/rear hatch and rocker panel seems. VNT
 

Kestas

Staff member
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
14,037
Location
The Motor City
A perfectly painted car will not rust. Unfortunately, paint ages, cracks, chips, peels, and otherwise gets easily breached for a variety of reasons. Once paint starts peeling it's no better than what Mickey described - a layer of material that traps corrodants. Plus it's hard to paint the surfaces of crevices, where rust typically starts. It's not the flat panels that need rust protection, but all the welds, crevices, and overlapping joints and seams where the electrolytic action that forms the onset of corrosion takes foothold needs the most protection. I just don't see painting as the answer to protecting metal. A wet, greasy application of rustproofing material that can flow into crevices (and even scaly rust), remain wet, and exclude the environment is the answer. Rustproofing material would be considerably more resistant to chipping than paint - in fact, it doesn't chip at all. It's just so much simpler and easier to apply a good quality rustproofing material than paint and all the prep work that goes with it.
 

VNT

Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Messages
258
Location
Maine
If you have ever used the Eastwoods stuff you would change your mind. A day underneath with a paint brush will do the trick, assuming it isnt so far gone and you spend the time to clean off the dirt and grease. The Chasis black is like powder coating in a can. It is awesome stuff, 100$ a gallon. I have been told by a few guys who restore older cars that the rust encapsulator was devoloped for use on bridges. Most use it in spots they cannot acces to easily. If you use this stuff when the car is new, it will eliminate any issues. Problem is most people will never do it because it is a messy job and most get rid of their cars efter 5 or so years and the next guy inherits the problems when the car gets older. Another trick is buy some seam sealer and seal up the joints in panels underneath.
quote:
Originally posted by Kestas: A perfectly painted car will not rust. Unfortunately, paint ages, cracks, chips, peels, and otherwise gets easily breached for a variety of reasons. Once paint starts peeling it's no better than what Mickey described - a layer of material that traps corrodants. Plus it's hard to paint the surfaces of crevices, where rust typically starts. It's not the flat panels that need rust protection, but all the welds, crevices, and overlapping joints and seams where the electrolytic action that forms the onset of corrosion takes foothold needs the most protection. I just don't see painting as the answer to protecting metal. A wet, greasy application of rustproofing material that can flow into crevices (and even scaly rust), remain wet, and exclude the environment is the answer. Rustproofing material would be considerably more resistant to chipping than paint - in fact, it doesn't chip at all. It's just so much simpler and easier to apply a good quality rustproofing material than paint and all the prep work that goes with it.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2004
Messages
1,001
Location
Baltimore
quote:
VNT: If you have ever used the Eastwoods stuff you would change your mind. A day underneath with a paint brush will do the trick, assuming it isnt so far gone and you spend the time to clean off the dirt and grease. ....
Eastwood used to sell "Corroless" instead of the current encapsulator: http://www.corroless.com/products_text.html I've tried both and they are reasonably effective in some situations ... very light rust on otherwise relatively clean surfaces. If you can get the metal down to bare metal, neither is as effective in preventing future rust as a zinc coating with some sort of non-drying topcoat. One advantage of zinc (cold or hot galvanizing) is its ability to "heal" - the zinc sacrifices itself to protect nearby exposed steel. If you have deep flaking rust, any coating will eventually fail although some of the "converters" or "encapsulators" can provide a fairly good appearance in the short run. .
 

VNT

Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Messages
258
Location
Maine
Well go to the Eastwoods site and they have Nov 2003 Auto Resoter article where the author who runs a restoration shop took a hood where all the paint had been stripped to bare metal and sat outside for a year accumulating surface rust. He painted half with Rust Encapsulator and the othe half with POR 15. He then left it out side and sprayed it daily with his own salt/water brew for 4 months and the took pictures. He explains his results and highly endorsed the Eastwoods Ecapsulator. I have used both on a new car and a restoration and I find the stuff to be top notch.
 

Kestas

Staff member
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
14,037
Location
The Motor City
You're right, I've never used the Eastwood material, so I won't criticize it. But I have 23 years experience with the Texaco Rustproofing compound. Some cars in my fleet were kept cradle-to-grave and were daily drivers in the rust belt. My winter driver presently is a 15-year-old Mercury Marquis still in mint condition. The only problem with my rustproofing system is that corrosion starts at the corners of the Class A finished panels, where the car would look awful if I applied rustproofing there. Some of my previous vehicles were completely corrosion-free, except where corrosion started outside-in or started in cavities like the A-pillar or roof, where it was impossible to apply rustproofing. I'm curious, if the Eastwood system is so good, why aren't there shops specializing in treating cars with this product? I believe the answer is that conventional rustproofing is cheaper and easier to apply and is very effective for most daily drivers.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
971
Location
Boston
Rust is truly a hassle and nobody uses more salt than N.Y.,however,many studies indicate the true useful life of an average new vehicle is 13 years and my experience is the same. After this amount of time you are ready for a new vehicle with the updated improvements that you will enjoy.
 
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