While watching the news on the senseless tragedy in Ukraine, they mention the the aircraft that Russia leased and refuses to return may be worthless as they do not have documentation of work done to these aircraft. What I dont understand is they pull aircraft out of the dessert after many years and put them in service why cant they do the same in this case when and if this war ends.
Russia's leased planes may be worthless
- Thread starter raaizin
- Start date
Because the airplanes have been operating as opposed to the ones sitting and not accumulating time and cycles in storage. Plus those stored airplanes have records documenting their operation up until they are stored.
Without maintenance documentation, the airplane cannot comply with regulations in the US or EU.
There are requirements for maintenance. It's not like a used car with no history. Airplanes must have the hours, and cycles, and maintenance, carefully documented and all requirements carefully complied with.
An airplane without that is good only for spare parts. It can't be operated. It's junk.
what if it was only flown to church on Sundays?
Why not just bring it up to date on the maintenance if there are no records? Why junk it?
You can do that with scheduled inspections and some other periodic items. But there are many life-limited components on an aircraft and engines that must have documented history back to birth. If you don't know how many hours or cycles are on those components then they must be scrapped. Even some structural components are life-limited and those may be uneconomical or impractical to replace.
If you don't have a record of the last "C" check that can be repeated. But if you don't know the total cycles on an engine disk then that's a problem.
Don't all planes have hour meters like the odometer on cars?
Lol, no they don't. No transport category airplanes have an hour meter or "Hobbs". But many do report their hours and cycles via ACARS so that might be an option. But even then you still need documentation on parts installed and removed, so it depends on just how bad the records happen to be. If you installed an engine for which there isn't an overhaul record then even if you know how many cycles and hours have been elapsed on the airframe, you can't necessarily substantiate the time and cycles on the components.
There are some really bad operators out there and you don't know that's the case until the records are audited.
There are some really bad operators out there and you don't know that's the case until the records are audited.
Do
Does each component have an hour meter and a cycle counter? Even with an "hour meter" for the whole plane, components are inspected and/or replaced on intervals. Without knowing where these all are at, good luck.
There is a reason flying is as safe and reliable as it is - and part of that is the maintenance that is way more preventative and thorough versus what we do on a car...
Does each component have an hour meter and a cycle counter? Even with an "hour meter" for the whole plane, components are inspected and/or replaced on intervals. Without knowing where these all are at, good luck.
There is a reason flying is as safe and reliable as it is - and part of that is the maintenance that is way more preventative and thorough versus what we do on a car...
It doesn’t work that way.
Without records, you could strip it to the bare airframe, inspect the airframe, and rebuild it from there, using known components.
But if the airframe is composite, this might not be possible, as NDI on composite is not as precise as test on metal structures.
You cannot fly airplanes past their certified service/design life. It’s not safe. It’s not legal.
Here’s an analogy: let’s say engines in cars must be rebuilt at 50,000 miles, and the car itself must be scrapped at 200,000 miles. Must. Be. Scrapped.
You find a 2006 Corolla. No maintenance history. No odometer.
What‘s it worth?
zero. Absolutely nothing.
Because you can’t prove that it’s still legal to operate.
You strip it for parts.
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If I get a 100,000 mile car with no service records, I do the timing belt and water pump in addition to the spark plugs, wires, filters, fluids, etc. to bring the maintenance up to date. Also do an inspection of the brakes, suspension, tires, body and frame while I'm at it.
Do you understand any of the responses in this thread as to why that isn't the same with an aircraft?
I think it is also about how many hours are on each and every component. If there's no way to know if part X has 2 or 200 hours on it and you multiply that by every replaceable part on the plane your only option is to disassemble the plane for parts and evaluate each part individually before you sell it.
Obviously, there is a HUGE difference between an automobile and plane - if a car breaks down you pull over and if I plane breaks down it falls out of the sky and kills people.
Dude, seriously?
What you do with a car has NOTHING to do with how airplanes are operated and serviced.
It’s like listening to a Boy Scout working on his first aid merit badge asking a neurosurgeon why he doesn’t just put a tourniquet on a brain bleed.…
There are planes from the 20's and 30's still flying around. Do THEY have all the records from day one? Hard to believe.
That’s enough. @atikovi you clearly don’t understand, and now you’re trolling and being obnoxious. Read the article before posting again.
There are no commercial airliners from the 1930s in commercial service.
That’s what we’re talking about here. Commercial airliners are held to a different standard than cars. Than light civil aircraft. The Russian commercial airliners without service records are worth scrap value.
Period.
There are no commercial airliners from the 1930s in commercial service.
That’s what we’re talking about here. Commercial airliners are held to a different standard than cars. Than light civil aircraft. The Russian commercial airliners without service records are worth scrap value.
Period.
From a Google search,
Perhaps unique among prewar aircraft, the DC-3 continues to fly in active commercial and military service as of 2021, eighty-six years after the type's first flight in 1935.
Perhaps unique among prewar aircraft, the DC-3 continues to fly in active commercial and military service as of 2021, eighty-six years after the type's first flight in 1935.
