Rumors about NAR settlement

[zzyzzx]

 

[SC Maintenance]

I have gotten value from my buying agents. When we found the hot property they got the first showing and we were the first offer in.

Then they ensured the sellers didn't backout and we got the deal closed.

You need the right agent and know when to Aim and fire. Becuase they know the people and system and work it to your advantage.

Sounds good. How do I find this mythical agent? Why do they make the same as the dolts I got?

 

[CKN]

Concur, bunch of vultures. Never seen a group of such low skilled people be paid so well...especially the "selling agents" posted at the newest "mixed use" development of blackrock.

There are some really professional Real Estate Agents that can make things happen, when the low volume ones can't. I know this first hand. I don't know about the skill levels of the rest, but we can both agree they are over paid.

 

[bbhero]

There are some really professional Real Estate Agents that can make things happen, when the low volume ones can't. I know this first hand. I don't know about the skill levels of the rest, but we can both agree they are over paid.

Let me tell you who is over paid in this world in my opinion… And this is not to imply that my opinion is right. I mean that sincerely.

It’s just what I think.

Anyone making huge money playing a darn professional sport….

Baseball, basketball, football. . Etc etc

Hollywood … actors… film makers etc etc..

Television cable people… Especially certain networks… Of all stripes…


But …. This is supposedly a free country.

So it is what the market is. At least for now.

I am ok with that at the end of the day.

 

[CarbonToast]

Sounds good. How do I find this mythical agent? Why do they make the same as the dolts I got?

Interview them, it was pretty clear to me the ones I wanted in my corner.

 

[Tharber]

Except for the fact that the only people who 'own' all this data are the agents taking the listings and entering that data into what now might be a defunct MLS system. There have long been programs that can search and strip tax rolls for comps, the problem being that it could take months for that data to be published and dissiminated. If you are depending on Zillow to give you comps, you are being misled, look at their own info concerning Zestimates and their margin for error.

Paying for an appraisal upfront is a waste of money as 99% of all sellers if financed will not be allowed to use it and they grow stale after a few months. $500 down the drain.

YOu are still depending an an agent who you are so adimate about cutting out of the picture and paying them whatever you think you are smart enough to negotiate ther fee to. What is you pay them 3%, pluis your appraisal plus your flat fee listing agreement, etc and a decent agent might have done the whole thing for 5% total? What did you actually save?

Sales price $150,000
Buyer agent $4500
Appraisal $500 which by the way if it is low, you are stuck disclosing it, I hope you know that.
Flat fee for MLS $200

What is you under priced it? All this to save a potential $2100 and have no one in your corner negotiating for you? OK. I guess my time is worth more to me thatn your time is to you.

TH

 

[Tharber]

Alarm guy I get it. I enjoy the banter with those who are intellectually challenged to know enough to base an intelligent opinion. AS I have said before, its like buying a brand new Corvette and buying the cheapest oil money can buy because after all, its all oil and I need to save a buck.

Please noone take offense. I mean nothing personal.

TH

 

[Tharber]

So in my market the 1st lawsuit has been filed concerning this. It seems that Betsy Sue buyer was unwilling to go to closing unless she received a discount from all parties for her 'buyers side' commision. She held the commision and ransom and luckily the brokers involved called her bluff.

She is now being sued for failure to perform by the seller and has lost her escrow deposit.

TH

 

[Owen Lucas]

Paying for an appraisal upfront is a waste of money as 99% of all sellers if financed will not be allowed to use it and they grow stale after a few months. $500 down the drain.

We need a "day of death" appraisal to establish cost basis for the IRS. I've read realtor opinions where this isn't necessary since we are selling so quickly but we are getting it for piece of mind. Plus our accountant advised we do so.

YOu are still depending an an agent who you are so adimate about cutting out of the picture and paying them whatever you think you are smart enough to negotiate ther fee to. What is you pay them 3%, pluis your appraisal plus your flat fee listing agreement, etc and a decent agent might have done the whole thing for 5% total? What did you actually save?

Buyer agent $4500

I found agents that are willing to go to 4.5%. I still think that's too much. Since it's a hot market I'll just wait for a cash buyer to come in. If an agent shows up, I'll lt you know what happens.

Average time on market is 30-40 days, no problem. I don't mind waiting a little longer.

Appraisal $500 which by the way if it is low, you are stuck disclosing it, I hope you know that.

I'm fine showing my cards and the true appraisal and then saying, "this is the price, take it or leave it, it's a free market". We are already getting calls on the property from the estate being listed in the legal news. Granted these are from bottom of the barrel investors.

This is after all a passion project for me now, I want to see if I can do it and save some $$$ to boot.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Except for the fact that the only people who 'own' all this data are the agents taking the listings and entering that data into what now might be a defunct MLS system

It wouldn't take long to scrape closing data and create an accurate database. How far would they need to go back - 12 months max maybe? Easy peesy for people in the data business. No, zillow is not in the data business, there in the internet advertising business.

The MLS data is pretty bad anyway. For example it was Fannie that recently published their study that the data there getting on mortgages for new construction properties is garbage, because most data fails to record builder buy downs - meaning the "selling" price is no longer accurate - from a comp perspective. If you buy my house for $100K, but I immediately hand you $5K back, the comp on that house is now $95K, not 100 - but apparently that is not being recorded.

Paying for an appraisal upfront is a waste of money

Your a professional, in the industry. Maybe for you it is. Even if I have an agent, how on earth am I supposed to know that there suggestion on sell price is correct? I have no clue.

Most of your comments are taken from an insiders perspective. They actually highlight a big issue in the market - the fact that realtors just expect their clients to do or agree with whatever they say, and there is no transparency or attempt at explanation at all. If my realtor gives me a listing estimate on my property, how am I supposed to have a clue if its correct?

Trust me - AI will replace realtors for a lot of reasons, but the transparency part might be the biggest one.

 

[sloinker]

I think it is a perfect time for real estate attorneys to cash in at the sake of realtors. Have a website with a template for the homeowner. A checklist to perform and the tools to employ the inspector, title company etc. The attorney cost structure in black and white. Seller deals with buyer directly. Giving 6% of the selling price to the realtor will go away. The cost of the attorney will be a fraction of the current price structure. A win for the seller and the buyer. The tears from brokers and agents may cause localized flash flooding. I'm not saying that RE brokers and agents don't provide a valuable service. I am saying that without real price competition and near monopoly status in all aspects of the transaction they have had decades of easy money. Those days are coming to an end.

 

[Tharber]

OK I undertand then but realize that the cost basis (you call day of death) could vary drastically from an appraised amount based on a sales contract.

I would also dvice you to seek out a qualified perfessional to advice you in ways to avoid having to pay capitol gains on this inheritance, if any.

TH

 

[Tharber]

Any good agent will be more than happy to provide you with up to date comparable sales and a methodology of pricing. It is not vodoo magic and is based on facts that are not secret but may not be available to the public, ie tax assessors sites and recordings. We have to record any consessions that were part of the sale so I would say 99% of the time the data is accurate.

I can not speak for all states but in FL, an attorney can only sell real estate if the have a valid RE license.

 

[SC Maintenance]

OK I undertand then but realize that the cost basis (you call day of death) could vary drastically from an appraised amount based on a sales contract.

Huh? Are you saying an appraisal to establish a basis will differ from an appraisal to cover a sale.

 

[Tharber]

It most cases I would say that a cost basis will be less than a sale appraisal, yes. Why? There is no immediate need or urgency in a cost basis approach where as with a sale, its time sensitive and if an appraisal needs to be a little higher to cover the contracted price, usually it will go. It also helps when an agent is on site with his/her comps to provide the the appraiser.
TH

 

[SC Maintenance]

It most cases I would say that a cost basis will be less than a sale appraisal, yes. Why? There is no immediate need or urgency in a cost basis approach where as with a sale, its time sensitive and if an appraisal needs to be a little higher to cover the contracted price, usually it will go. It also helps when an agent is on site with his/her comps to provide the the appraiser.
TH

I was hoping you would say this. So what your saying is a appraisal to achieve a sale is a made up number slightly above sale price to ensure a closure, and the supposedly impartial appraiser is manipulated by those subject to getting a commission on its closing, to ensure they get more future business from said agents.

Yet one more feature of this corrupt market.

 

[alarmguy]

Alarm guy I get it. I enjoy the banter with those who are intellectually challenged to know enough to base an intelligent opinion. AS I have said before, its like buying a brand new Corvette and buying the cheapest oil money can buy because after all, its all oil and I need to save a buck.

Please noone take offense. I mean nothing personal.

TH

No offense, thanks for the response. I dont come across like it in here the way I try to discuss things at time, after all we are just reading words in the way we THINK they are mean't.
IN any forum, any industry, anyone trashes whatever the service is, doesnt matter if real estate, plumbers, electricians, landscapers, painters, anything. Im all good with that too, that is why I call it jealousy ... most people, except media and their media reading drones gladly pay for convenience.

They just dont comprehend that people with the means dont want to bother handling their own stuff and the only thing that does drive me nuts is, these bashers have NO IDEA what they are talking about *LOL*
BUT that is since the beginning of time. Until I moved I was a top agent in the Metro NY market (documented) these percentage of bashers are tiny but have a big voice in social media but not in reality. My clients loved me in survey after survey winning top quality awards every year and BTW a top agent listing homes of FSBO's that failed to sell and got them higher prices in MANY cases then they knew they could get.

We also love market shake ups, the more agents kicked out of the business who like any profession arent much use, the more business for the good ones. My whole point is, none of this is unique to real estate. Real estate agency will always exist because people pay for convenience but the clueless in social media dont understand that, nor do they understand most good agents do not cost the client much if anything once the deal is done.

 

[SC Maintenance]

No offense, thanks for the response. I dont come across like it in here the way I try to discuss things at time, after all we are just reading words in the way we THINK they are mean't.
IN any forum, any industry, anyone trashes whatever the service is, doesnt matter if real estate, plumbers, electricians, landscapers, painters, anything. Im all good with that too, that is why I call it jealousy ... most people, except media and their media reading drones gladly pay for convenience. They just dont comprehend that people with the means dont want to bother handling their own stuff and the only thing that does drive me nuts is, these bashers have NO IDEA what they are talking about *LOL* BUT that is since the beginning of time. Until I moved I was a top agent in the Metro NY market (documented) these percentage of bashers are tiny but have a big voice in social media but not in reality.

Your an insider. Your perspective is extremely different than the average guy on the street.

I don't really know anyone that thinks the real estate industry is ethical. Most just tolerate it - because they use it once a decade. I am sure there are some realtors that are very helpful and ethical, and many that are not. I had one that was pretty good, and two that were utterly worthless. Its the industries job to educate the public on their value - not bash them when they think there wrong. Winning friends and influencing enemies.

Clearly the justice department agrees with me, because they took the NAR to court. And clearly the federal Jury in Kansas agrees with me because they awarded $2.1B. And clearly the NAR agrees with me because they settled for $500M rather than appealing. Hint - the justice department generally only pursues civil cases that are popular with the public.

If were all wrong who's fault is that?

 

[Tharber]

No there is nothing corrupt about the process. An appraisal takes into account highest prices and lowest prices, you also factor in that a ready willing and able buyer has a contract at $XXXXX. Is it going to be vastly different? NO. Might it be 3% to 5% either way, yes.

In the finl analysis, if you can't afford to hire a professional, don't.

Also, I have over looked the comments about it not taking much to get a RE license. Thats not the case. CA for example requires 135 hrs to qualify to take the exam, Texas 180, FL 70 and then an additional 45, just to be a sales person, broker requirements are double that. The average Bachelor degree is 120 hrs.....go figure.

 

[SC Maintenance]

No there is nothing corrupt about the process. An appraisal takes into account highest prices and lowest prices, you also factor in that a ready willing and able buyer has a contract at $XXXXX. Is it going to be vastly different? NO. Might it be 3% to 5% either way, yes.

In the finl analysis, if you can't afford to hire a professional, don't.

Also, I have over looked the comments about it not taking much to get a RE license. Thats not the case. CA for example requires 135 hrs to qualify to take the exam, Texas 180, FL 70 and then an additional 45, just to be a sales person, broker requirements are double that. The average Bachelor degree is 120 hrs.....go figure.

If the realtor sticks around to show comps - its the definition of corrupt. The appraisal is supposed to be done by an independent expert. Your words - "It also helps when an agent is on site with his/her comps to provide the the appraiser."

It would be like letting the prosecutor into the jury deliberations - to pass around suggestions.

Also, I have over looked the comments about it not taking much to get a RE license. Thats not the case. CA for example requires 135 hrs to qualify to take the exam, Texas 180, FL 70 and then an additional 45, just to be a sales person, broker requirements are double that. The average Bachelor degree is 120 hrs.....go figure.

You realize to get a real estate license in California requires 135 hours of coursework. Means 135 hours of actual time. You can usually get it done in a quarter - part time. Probably study for the exam and so on. Anyone that wants to take the courses can.

A 3 hour college course is 3 hours of instruction per week, for a term - then you take most of the work home, plus exams. Entry is competitive.

PS - I have never said, nor do I care how much any particular realtor makes. I don't judge individuals. However the real estate sales market is clearly an unregulated monopoly. Corruption is a feature not a bug.