Royal Purple 10W-30, 2001 Toyota Corolla (3ZZ-FE), 3119 miles

es · Mar 21, 2004

Hi everyone,
This is my third UOA.
80% of distance covered is on freeway. The weather here in Singapore is warm and it rains a lot.
The 3ZZ-FE engine in my Corolla has an aluminium block and head with cast iron liners.
All samples were taken by a pumping via a plastic hose inserted down the dipstick tube. I didn't change my oil or filter at this interval.
Ken4 suggested that my high silicon may be due to my sampling method - dirt from the dipstick tube. If the silicon doesn't increase when I sample at 6000 miles, it should confirm his suspicions.
Is anyone else sampling this way or does everyone sample from the drain plug?

code:

Car : 2001 1.6l Toyota Corolla (3ZZ-FE engine)

Oil : RP 10W-30 RP 10W-30 SLX A1 0W-30

Miles on Oil : 3,119 6,108 6,400

Miles on Engine : 47,043 43,604 37,623

Oil Added : 0 0 0

Metals (ppm)

------------

Aluminium (Al) 4 6 11

Copper (Cu) < 1 1 1

Chromium (Cr) < 1 < 1 < 1

Iron (Fe) 4 7 8

Lead (Pb) 1 1 < 1

Tin (Sn) < 1 1 1

Nickel (Ni) < 1 1 < 1

Contaminants / Additives (ppm)

------------------------------

Silicon (Si) 63 40 56

Boron (B) 6 8 15

Sodium (Na) 6 5 7

Potassium (K) 4 4 7

Phosphorus (P) 950 921 924

Molybdenum (Mo) 142 157 334

Magnesium (Mg) 6 8 13

Calcium (Ca) 2142 2227 2514

Zinc (Zn) 1084 1121 1134

Physical Tests

--------------

Total Base Number 3.7 2.6 3.7

Water (% by FTIR) < 0.1 < 0.1 0.1

Soot % 0.3 0.2

Oxidation (Abs) 18.9 34

Nitration (Abs) 9.4 12 16.6

Viscosity (cSt,100°C) 9.5 9.6 10.4

Viscosity (cSt,40°C) 62.2 59.5 57.2

Petrol 1.5 0.5 0.8

Patman · Mar 21, 2004

Extremely nice wear numbers!

The high silicon is definitely from the sampling method, because if you had that much actual silicon in your crankcase, your wear numbers would've been much higher.
I bet the true silicon reading would've been in the single digits.

sbc350gearhead · Mar 22, 2004

Very nice. RP is still thining out, although fuel dillution was probably the reason in the last test. But .5% fuel shouldn't have affected the previous run that much. Having said that......I really don't think that it matters. RP seems to protect well, even with the shear. It is nice to see more RP reports as of late.

Spector · Mar 22, 2004

I use to sample that way all the time and I don't see how you get extra silicon, just a plastic tube down a clean dipstick tube. Assuming the dipstick tube is sealed when the stick is in where is the si coming from then?

Again as noted above, it is not causing where whatever the source

es · Mar 22, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Spector:
Assuming the dipstick tube is sealed when the stick is in where is the si coming from then?

Seal and gasket material?

Ken4 · Mar 23, 2004

There is an 0-ring on the dipstick that's supposed to keep the dirt out, but what's above the o-ring is dirt. Use a tissue and wipe that area above the o-ring and you'll know what I mean. Do you reuse your tubing? Do you chamfer your tube end? Is your sample container new & perfectly clean? When you insert the tube, does it touch the bottom of the sump? Do you sample your oil immediately after hot engine shutdown?

es · Mar 23, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Ken4:
Do you reuse your tubing? Do you chamfer your tube end? Is your sample container new & perfectly clean? When you insert the tube, does it touch the bottom of the sump? Do you sample your oil immediately after hot engine shutdown?

New tubing for every sample.
Sample container is new and looks clean. I didn't wash it - maybe I should.
Tube end is cut at an angle (has a pointed end).
Tube is inserted to dipstick length.
Oil is sampled within 5 minutes after shutdown.

I should just do a sample from the drain plug to settle things. If the silicon is still high, then the main suspect would really be seal and gasket reaction.

Ken4 · Mar 23, 2004

Sounds like you're doing everything by the book. Hate to say it, but the other explanation might just be lab error. Singapore lab

. Why dont you try Terry Dyson the next time.

es · Mar 23, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Ken4:
Sounds like you're doing everything by the book. Hate to say it, but the other explanation might just be lab error. Singapore lab

. Why dont you try Terry Dyson the next time.

Hmm... but what consistent errors. Testing in Singapore is MUCH more convenient. No postal issues, no payment issues, quick turnaround, lower cost. I actually started doing a UOA to see if changing to a cheaper oil would save me some money

edhackett · Mar 23, 2004

I have to agree with Ken4 about possible lab error, the numbers you are getting don't look right to me. I've had five analysis done on RP 10W-30 by Blackstone, and the numbers you show are much higher for the additive levels. Here is an average for my five results, which were also very consistent and confirmed with RP as proper levels:

Mo 110
K 0
B 0
P 810
Zn 960

If the formulation you have there is the same as what I've been using (SL GF3) your lab results are suspect.

B, Na, K, and Si can all be present in antifreeze.

B is a possible fuel additive.

I'd at least take two samples next time and send one to another lab in Singapore, if you can, or to Blackstone. Bad data is useless information.

Ed

es · Mar 24, 2004

I guess it brings up the accuracy versus consistency argument, and why trending is important.

The lab in question is ALS (Australian Laboratory Services) Chemex Singapore, which is affiliated with the global WearCheck organization. I'm pretty happy with their service so far.

I might just be curious enough to send my next samples to 2 different labs.

Ian · Jul 6, 2004

Hi ES,

Do you usually convert the mileage to miles?
Just curious.

Ian · Jul 6, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by es:
I guess it brings up the accuracy versus consistency argument, and why trending is important.

The lab in question is ALS (Australian Laboratory Services) Chemex Singapore, which is affiliated with the global WearCheck organization. I'm pretty happy with their service so far.

I might just be curious enough to send my next samples to 2 different labs.

Hi ES,

Would the high Si levels be due to your air filter? What are you using?

By the way, have you sent your samples to 2 different labs yet? I would be curious to know if ALS' results are different from another lab. I am waiting to see my UOA of RP10W30 in about 5 month's time.

mnztr · Jul 7, 2004

Don't you pretty much have to get rid of your car in S'pore after 5 years or so? Why the concern about longevity?

es · Jul 7, 2004

Hi Ian,

quote:

Originally posted by Ian:

Do you usually convert the mileage to miles?
Just curious.

Since many (if not most) posts here use miles, I don't mind doing the conversion for the convenience of others.

quote:

Would the high Si levels be due to your air filter? What are you using?

Changed from K&N back to OEM but didn't get much of a difference. All the signs don't suggest dirt problems.

quote:

By the way, have you sent your samples to 2 different labs yet? I would be curious to know if ALS' results are different from another lab.

Decided not to. The reason I started doing UOAs was to see if I could save some money by changing to a cheaper oil.

es · Jul 7, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by mnztr:
Don't you pretty much have to get rid of your car in S'pore after 5 years or so? Why the concern about longevity?

I cover about 25,000 miles a year. With car prices so high over here (a Japanese 1.6l car goes for around US$40,000+), I'm trying to keep my car running as long as possible. You do get a rebate for deregistering your car before it's 10 years old, but that's 200,000 miles away.

Ian · Jul 7, 2004

quote:

Changed from K&N back to OEM but didn't get much of a difference. All the signs don't suggest dirt problems.

[/qb] [/QUOTE]Decided not to. The reason I started doing UOAs was to see if I could save some money by changing to a cheaper oil. [/QB][/QUOTE]

The Silicon does look very high. OEM - do u mean original Toyota?

On cheaper oil.... AGREE!!

Ian · Nov 5, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by es:

quote:

Originally posted by mnztr:
Don't you pretty much have to get rid of your car in S'pore after 5 years or so? Why the concern about longevity?

Click to expand...

I cover about 25,000 miles a year. With car prices so high over here (a Japanese 1.6l car goes for around US$40,000+), I'm trying to keep my car running as long as possible. You do get a rebate for deregistering your car before it's 10 years old, but that's 200,000 miles away.

Hi ES,

Are you still on RP10W30? Just got my latest UOA in for the RP10W30 in my Ipsum. Check it out.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=002032#000008

Royal Purple 10W-30, 2001 Toyota Corolla (3ZZ-FE), 3119 miles

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