Rotella® T is all Group II

[G-MAN]

Just found this while digging around on the Shell lubricants web site:

"...Shell Rotella® T uses and has used 100% group II base oil for years. Group II base oils have very good volatility. Our new API CJ-4 Shell Rotella® T will use 100% group II base oil."

 

[Gene K]

I quoted the above a couple of weeks ago in a post about the new CJ-4. At first glance it appears despite intitial claims to to the contrary they did not have to upgrade basestock to meet CJ-4. Of course it may be a better grade of Group II... ie at least partially Group II+ since this is not an official category.

I believe the first 100% Group II Basestock Rotella was CI-4.

On the rotella.com board at one time there was a post that actually listed the individual vi of each basestock used in
Rotella T 15w40 CI-4+.

 

[buster]

Goes to show you that additives play as much of a role, of not more so, then the base oil used. You can make a good oil from any base oil if the additive package is good.

I thought Rotella was a Group III/II blend. Guess not. I wish I had the old issue of Race Car Engineering magazine. They had a section on Lubricants where Shell stated their f1 oils were a blend of Group III/IV and V. I believe the Helix line is Group III also.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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Goes to show you that additives play as much of a role, of not more so, then the base oil used. You can make a good oil from any base oil if the additive package is good.

I thought Rotella was a Group III/II blend. Guess not.

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You have to remember that the relative quality of Group II varies widely (just as it does with Group III). Since Group II+ isn't an official designation, but is used by convention by some oil companies (most notably Chevron), it could very well be that run-of-the-mill Group II was used in CI-4 Rotella and the higher VI Group II (commonly called Group II+) is now being used. That's my guess.

 

[daman]

This is the regular Rotella not the Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 right???

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

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This is the regular Rotella not the Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 right???

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Right. The new CJ-4 15w40, not the 5w40 Rotella T Synthetic.

 

[JAG]

When they say Group 2 has a very good volatility, they mean relative to Group 1 which isn't saying much. I measured the volatility of Delo 15w40 (CI-4+) at 320F and I kid you not, it was close to twice as volatile as Mobil 1 5w30. This was not the NOACK methodology, so don't expect the NOACK volatility values to scale to my test values. I usually test synthetics only and the "cloud" of vapor coming off the oils is indistinguishable between the different synthetics (only the scale detects a difference). When I tested Delo alongside Mobil 1 5w30, the amount of vapor coming off Delo was obviously much greater...as the scale later proved. The Delo didn't appreciate this abuse very much either. It turned quite dark, smelled nasty, and thickened up considerably (once cooled) after a few hours of heating while the synthetics I've tested don't thicken up or stink badly after this amount of time. A penny was in each oil and Delo corroded the heck out of its penny while the Mobil 1 penny was like new at the end of the test. I know, this is all sort of off topic but want people to know that Group 2 oils are far from the better basestocks in extreme conditions.

 

[G-MAN]

If your sump temperature ever reaches 320F, you've got more important things to worry about than the volatility of the oil.

 

[JAG]

G-Man, the temp of oil in parts of an engine reaches much higher temps than the sump temp. HTHS is measured at 150C for that reason. Piston rings and cylinder walls are very hot as well. A turbo adds another hot spot as well.

 

[friendly_jacek]

I thought rings and cylinder walls were 150C and thus HTHS is measured at 150. Piston crown is hotter but shouldn't see any oil.

Jag, what was the temp in your test?

 

[JAG]

I tested the above oils at around 320F. Just happened to be that temp; wasn't aiming for that particular value.

 

[GregH]

The bottom line with the base oils is:
The oil companies are using the balance of base oils versus add pack that makes them the most money and still passes the required tests, at least with their mineral oils.
If you don't believe me look at Chevron's site concerning base oils. They say up front for instance that the least expensive way to make a 5-30 GF-4 oil is to use group ll+ 5R and one of their Group ll oils. This combo requires no expensive corrections fluids(Goup lll at 10 to 50 %) and a reasonably priced add pack. This is their words. So I don't think for a minute most oils are built to please the ois user, just the oil companies.
Greg Harrison

 

[beanoil]

link to thread
So what is it? GrpII, GrpII+ or GRPIII? FWIW, I think Rotella is a fine, robust oil, and my personal experience shows it leaves the engine very clean, and low wear numbers.

 

[Wrehch]

That's a link to a post I just made about Rotella T SYNTHETIC 5W/40 and not the Rotella T 15W/40 that this thread is talking about. Confusing isn't it.

 

[1040 WreckerMan]

The pistons in most diesel engines to come into contact with LARGE amounts of oil. The piston crown is cooled by engine oil, so that is one area that the oil is subjected to high temperatures. This is probably the most demanding areas temperature wise along with turbocharger cartridges. Diesel engines produce more heat, but have very large and well designed cooling systems to maintain constant temps regardless of conditions.

Certinly the GPI and II oils do not tolerate heat as well as better base oils do. I've never been a big fan of Rotella. RTS is better, much better IMO, but I've had better luck with other brands, Delo, 76, Schaeffers. Delo and Rotella are very similar in base oil. This would lead me to believe that the reason other oils perform well with a lesser quality base oil is the additive package.

I wouldn't be overly concerned with the base oil group unless you have a specific issue that needs to be addressed, such as in a high performance application (like sled pulling). The important thing is how well the oil performs in service. As long as I'm getting good used oil analysis and good component life I'm gonna run the oil.