Rotella Hysteria
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Originally Posted By: Trajan
I just love it when some oil company says that they "exceed". I doubt very much that they sent the oil to the car maker to run the tests, and got a letter saying "Your oil is too good, we can't give it our approval."
I can claim to run a three minute mile. With my cane. So long as I don't submit to testing that claim, it stands up.
How do you say what you are saying???
Do you have any clue about the process ???
You make an oil that meets or is better than what a car makers states is necessary .
END OF STORY
you do lab work on it and it is over... it meets or exceeds the specs required
that is it
unless you pay the car maker to put it on its approved list --- big deal.
You have shown what I have known for a long time ... many post about oil here and have no clue about what they are talking about
I just love it when some oil company says that they "exceed". I doubt very much that they sent the oil to the car maker to run the tests, and got a letter saying "Your oil is too good, we can't give it our approval."
I can claim to run a three minute mile. With my cane. So long as I don't submit to testing that claim, it stands up.
How do you say what you are saying???
Do you have any clue about the process ???
You make an oil that meets or is better than what a car makers states is necessary .
END OF STORY
you do lab work on it and it is over... it meets or exceeds the specs required
that is it
unless you pay the car maker to put it on its approved list --- big deal.
You have shown what I have known for a long time ... many post about oil here and have no clue about what they are talking about
Huh?
You might beleive what someone who makes oil tells you. Which leads me to beleive that you think the claims an oil like synlube makes are all true.
How do you say what you're saying? Do *you* make an oil that meets or exceeds what a car maker claims is needed?
Maybe taking somebody's word for it is good enough for you. But if you want me to use your oil that you claim meets or exceeds ACEA A3/B3 and LL-01, then you have to prove it does.
And unless you carry the the approval, then as far as I am concerned, you fail.
I'll use oil that I know passed the test rather than one that claims to.
You might beleive what someone who makes oil tells you. Which leads me to beleive that you think the claims an oil like synlube makes are all true.
How do you say what you're saying? Do *you* make an oil that meets or exceeds what a car maker claims is needed?
Maybe taking somebody's word for it is good enough for you. But if you want me to use your oil that you claim meets or exceeds ACEA A3/B3 and LL-01, then you have to prove it does.
And unless you carry the the approval, then as far as I am concerned, you fail.
I'll use oil that I know passed the test rather than one that claims to.
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And that's the part that scares me about Dodge and the Sprinters-if they can't figure out simple problems, like diesel fuel mixed with gasoline, and the VP44 failure on my '02 Cummins, if you have a DPF problem (not saying that you will) under warranty, they will be looking for anything they can to void your warranty (as they did on my VP44, but the pump wire had never been tapped/no programmer). BTW, used Rotella T 15W40 in my co.'s 6.0 for probably the first 85K of it's life, other than hard/romping/smoky cold starts, worked great!
Oh, and here in SW Ohio, having great luck with PBX, Mobil 1 0W30 AFE, and Mobil 1 TDT synthetic oils so far! No hate here!
Originally Posted By: badnews
You make an oil that meets or is better than what a car makers states is necessary .
END OF STORY
you do lab work on it and it is over... it meets or exceeds the specs required
that is it
unless you pay the car maker to put it on its approved list --- big deal.
You have shown what I have known for a long time ... many post about oil here and have no clue about what they are talking about
Schaeffers employees: "But darn it, when we ran the sulfated ash test, we failed! Let's just gloss over that fact. How bad was the discrepancy? Instead of .8% or less, it is 1.0%. That's a 25% increase over the maximum allowed! Shhh! Thankfully there is a guy who is posting online that it is a measly .2% difference which sounds much better."
You make an oil that meets or is better than what a car makers states is necessary .
END OF STORY
you do lab work on it and it is over... it meets or exceeds the specs required
that is it
unless you pay the car maker to put it on its approved list --- big deal.
You have shown what I have known for a long time ... many post about oil here and have no clue about what they are talking about
Schaeffers employees: "But darn it, when we ran the sulfated ash test, we failed! Let's just gloss over that fact. How bad was the discrepancy? Instead of .8% or less, it is 1.0%. That's a 25% increase over the maximum allowed! Shhh! Thankfully there is a guy who is posting online that it is a measly .2% difference which sounds much better."
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
And that's the part that scares me about Dodge and the Sprinters-if they can't figure out simple problems, like diesel fuel mixed with gasoline, and the VP44 failure on my '02 Cummins, if you have a DPF problem (not saying that you will) under warranty, they will be looking for anything they can to void your warranty (as they did on my VP44, but the pump wire had never been tapped/no programmer). BTW, used Rotella T 15W40 in my co.'s 6.0 for probably the first 85K of it's life, other than hard/romping/smoky cold starts, worked great!
Just easier all around to follow mfg recommendations while under warranty. Out of warranty is a different story.
And that's the part that scares me about Dodge and the Sprinters-if they can't figure out simple problems, like diesel fuel mixed with gasoline, and the VP44 failure on my '02 Cummins, if you have a DPF problem (not saying that you will) under warranty, they will be looking for anything they can to void your warranty (as they did on my VP44, but the pump wire had never been tapped/no programmer). BTW, used Rotella T 15W40 in my co.'s 6.0 for probably the first 85K of it's life, other than hard/romping/smoky cold starts, worked great!
Just easier all around to follow mfg recommendations while under warranty. Out of warranty is a different story.
Originally Posted By: JAG
Originally Posted By: badnews
You make an oil that meets or is better than what a car makers states is necessary .
END OF STORY
you do lab work on it and it is over... it meets or exceeds the specs required
that is it
unless you pay the car maker to put it on its approved list --- big deal.
You have shown what I have known for a long time ... many post about oil here and have no clue about what they are talking about
Schaeffers employees: "But darn it, when we ran the sulfated ash test, we failed! Let's just gloss over that fact. How bad was the discrepancy? Instead of .8% or less, it is 1.0%. That's a 25% increase over the maximum allowed! Shhh! Thankfully there is a guy who is posting online that it is a measly .2% difference which sounds much better."
Originally Posted By: badnews
You make an oil that meets or is better than what a car makers states is necessary .
END OF STORY
you do lab work on it and it is over... it meets or exceeds the specs required
that is it
unless you pay the car maker to put it on its approved list --- big deal.
You have shown what I have known for a long time ... many post about oil here and have no clue about what they are talking about
Schaeffers employees: "But darn it, when we ran the sulfated ash test, we failed! Let's just gloss over that fact. How bad was the discrepancy? Instead of .8% or less, it is 1.0%. That's a 25% increase over the maximum allowed! Shhh! Thankfully there is a guy who is posting online that it is a measly .2% difference which sounds much better."
Specifications exist for a reason. Governing bodies enforcing particular specifications exist to establish a level of balance and order to what would otherwise be a MESS.
I want my DVD player to send a 1080p signal to my TV which supports 1080p to work. Guess what? If the TV or DVD player do not follow industry specifications, they will not work together.
I want my 2.0 USB Drive to work in any computer I plug it into that claims to have a 2.0 USB port.
If my application calls for a API CJ4 rated oil, if I choose to adhere, I want an oil that has passed this test. If they blow the test out of the water great, but I want to know that the API acknowledges that my vendor of choice has the rating they claim to have.
Schaeffers does not have a 5w-40 API CJ4 rated oil. They claim that their oil surpassed this benchmark. Are they lying? Probably not. Will your engine love you if you put in Schaeffers, I'm sure it will.
Members here on Bob are smarter and are willing to play outside of the specification boundaries.
badnews is willing to do so and is not concerned with a .2% delta, in SA. Nothing wrong with that.
I ran Redline in my Chevy knowing it was not API Starburst or API SM. Nor was it on the GM list. Nothing wrong with that.
My only issue again as I mentioned above is when an oil claims to meet a specification and does not.
I truly would rather them say "This oil is not licensed by the API in any category but can be considered for use when an API CJ4 oil is specified."
Bet that oil will not sell much.
Schaeffer data sheets are not available in the 9000 series as of this moment.
I want my DVD player to send a 1080p signal to my TV which supports 1080p to work. Guess what? If the TV or DVD player do not follow industry specifications, they will not work together.
I want my 2.0 USB Drive to work in any computer I plug it into that claims to have a 2.0 USB port.
If my application calls for a API CJ4 rated oil, if I choose to adhere, I want an oil that has passed this test. If they blow the test out of the water great, but I want to know that the API acknowledges that my vendor of choice has the rating they claim to have.
Schaeffers does not have a 5w-40 API CJ4 rated oil. They claim that their oil surpassed this benchmark. Are they lying? Probably not. Will your engine love you if you put in Schaeffers, I'm sure it will.
Members here on Bob are smarter and are willing to play outside of the specification boundaries.
badnews is willing to do so and is not concerned with a .2% delta, in SA. Nothing wrong with that.
I ran Redline in my Chevy knowing it was not API Starburst or API SM. Nor was it on the GM list. Nothing wrong with that.
My only issue again as I mentioned above is when an oil claims to meet a specification and does not.
I truly would rather them say "This oil is not licensed by the API in any category but can be considered for use when an API CJ4 oil is specified."
Bet that oil will not sell much.
Schaeffer data sheets are not available in the 9000 series as of this moment.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Just easier all around to follow mfg recommendations while under warranty. Out of warranty is a different story.
I think that's the crux of the issue. When under warranty, if one wishes to protect that warranty to the best of one's ability, one should use an fluids that are on the list of approved fluids.
After warranty, "meets or exceeds" would work for me. That, however, assumes that I trust the company. If it's Amsoil or RP or someone similar claiming it "meets or exceeds," then I'd have no problem using the product. If it's someone that we've never heard of or we know that they market substandard products, then we have an issue.
Just easier all around to follow mfg recommendations while under warranty. Out of warranty is a different story.
I think that's the crux of the issue. When under warranty, if one wishes to protect that warranty to the best of one's ability, one should use an fluids that are on the list of approved fluids.
After warranty, "meets or exceeds" would work for me. That, however, assumes that I trust the company. If it's Amsoil or RP or someone similar claiming it "meets or exceeds," then I'd have no problem using the product. If it's someone that we've never heard of or we know that they market substandard products, then we have an issue.
Originally Posted By: HondaMan
Schaeffer data sheets are not available in the 9000 series as of this moment.
Bottom of the S9000 page.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme_9000.html
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/9000.pdf
Schaeffer data sheets are not available in the 9000 series as of this moment.
Bottom of the S9000 page.
http://www.schaefferoil.com/supreme_9000.html
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/9000.pdf
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Just easier all around to follow mfg recommendations while under warranty. Out of warranty is a different story.
I think that's the crux of the issue. When under warranty, if one wishes to protect that warranty to the best of one's ability, one should use an fluids that are on the list of approved fluids.
After warranty, "meets or exceeds" would work for me. That, however, assumes that I trust the company. If it's Amsoil or RP or someone similar claiming it "meets or exceeds," then I'd have no problem using the product. If it's someone that we've never heard of or we know that they market substandard products, then we have an issue.
DPF's are required to last 150,000 miles per the feds ---- that is a long warranty .
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Just easier all around to follow mfg recommendations while under warranty. Out of warranty is a different story.
I think that's the crux of the issue. When under warranty, if one wishes to protect that warranty to the best of one's ability, one should use an fluids that are on the list of approved fluids.
After warranty, "meets or exceeds" would work for me. That, however, assumes that I trust the company. If it's Amsoil or RP or someone similar claiming it "meets or exceeds," then I'd have no problem using the product. If it's someone that we've never heard of or we know that they market substandard products, then we have an issue.
DPF's are required to last 150,000 miles per the feds ---- that is a long warranty .
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
And that's the part that scares me about Dodge and the Sprinters-if they can't figure out simple problems, like diesel fuel mixed with gasoline, and the VP44 failure on my '02 Cummins, if you have a DPF problem (not saying that you will) under warranty, they will be looking for anything they can to void your warranty (as they did on my VP44, but the pump wire had never been tapped/no programmer). BTW, used Rotella T 15W40 in my co.'s 6.0 for probably the first 85K of it's life, other than hard/romping/smoky cold starts, worked great!
Just easier all around to follow mfg recommendations while under warranty. Out of warranty is a different story.
So simple but the truth!!.
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
And that's the part that scares me about Dodge and the Sprinters-if they can't figure out simple problems, like diesel fuel mixed with gasoline, and the VP44 failure on my '02 Cummins, if you have a DPF problem (not saying that you will) under warranty, they will be looking for anything they can to void your warranty (as they did on my VP44, but the pump wire had never been tapped/no programmer). BTW, used Rotella T 15W40 in my co.'s 6.0 for probably the first 85K of it's life, other than hard/romping/smoky cold starts, worked great!
Just easier all around to follow mfg recommendations while under warranty. Out of warranty is a different story.
So simple but the truth!!.
It is. When I'm not playing chess, I like to keep things simple. And when someone like Doug Hillary advises me that using mfg approved oil is the way to go, it is something to listen to. His experience is light years ahead of my own.
His article of the month says it all.
His article of the month says it all.
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Originally Posted By: Trajan
It is. When I'm not playing chess, I like to keep things simple. And when someone like Doug Hillary advises me that using mfg approved oil is the way to go, it is something to listen to. His experience is light years ahead of my own.
His article of the month says it all.
Link to Mr. Hillary's article?
It is. When I'm not playing chess, I like to keep things simple. And when someone like Doug Hillary advises me that using mfg approved oil is the way to go, it is something to listen to. His experience is light years ahead of my own.
His article of the month says it all.
Link to Mr. Hillary's article?
Originally Posted By: badnews
DPF's are required to last 150,000 miles per the feds ---- that is a long warranty .
That is true. However, it's not an issue for everyone who has to face obscure specifications with their oils. Personally, if I had that issue, again, I'd stick with an actual approved oil for the warranty period. After that, if I could find a "meets or exceeds" oil that is trustworthy, I wouldn't sweat it.
DPF's are required to last 150,000 miles per the feds ---- that is a long warranty .
That is true. However, it's not an issue for everyone who has to face obscure specifications with their oils. Personally, if I had that issue, again, I'd stick with an actual approved oil for the warranty period. After that, if I could find a "meets or exceeds" oil that is trustworthy, I wouldn't sweat it.
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Trajan
It is. When I'm not playing chess, I like to keep things simple. And when someone like Doug Hillary advises me that using mfg approved oil is the way to go, it is something to listen to. His experience is light years ahead of my own.
His article of the month says it all.
Link to Mr. Hillary's article?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index....0&Itemid=71
#3 The second part.
Originally Posted By: Trajan
It is. When I'm not playing chess, I like to keep things simple. And when someone like Doug Hillary advises me that using mfg approved oil is the way to go, it is something to listen to. His experience is light years ahead of my own.
His article of the month says it all.
Link to Mr. Hillary's article?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index....0&Itemid=71
#3 The second part.
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Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Trajan
It is. When I'm not playing chess, I like to keep things simple. And when someone like Doug Hillary advises me that using mfg approved oil is the way to go, it is something to listen to. His experience is light years ahead of my own.
His article of the month says it all.
Link to Mr. Hillary's article?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index....0&Itemid=71
#3 The second part.
Thanks!
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Trajan
It is. When I'm not playing chess, I like to keep things simple. And when someone like Doug Hillary advises me that using mfg approved oil is the way to go, it is something to listen to. His experience is light years ahead of my own.
His article of the month says it all.
Link to Mr. Hillary's article?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/index....0&Itemid=71
#3 The second part.
Thanks!
I have no problem with using the oil brand recommendation by the OEM of the engine, but I really don't think it is that big of an issue. Case in point.... The only brand of oil that Cummins lists in anything I got from them with the purchase of my ISX or previous N-14 engines and brochures on their racks at the Cummins shops is Valvoline. Now, the trucking industry primarily uses Rotella, Delvac, and Delo. Yet, I have barely ever heard of Cummins denying any claim based on use of these other brands of oils or even asking the question. When I or anyone I know have stated to Cummins the brand we choose, it is a big yawn at the Cummins OEM shops.
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