Rotella 5w40 vs 10w-30

[italian68]

whats up bitog, been here just reading for a while now but this is my first post. i have a 1998 dodge ram 2500 pickup 5.9l gas, 90,000 miles i just purchased. the intake manifold gasket was bad and when i changed it, had it all apart, it had a fair amount of sludge in the crankcase. i actually had to scrape some crud off the lifter valley and vacuum it out. found out the gasket was bad after a 150 mile trip i was one quart low.

i live in nj and do not use this vehicle as a daily driver. i plow snow in the winter and will tow an 8000lb trailer in the summer. i would estimate 3000 mi per year use or less. i changed the oil once when i bought the truck and 500 mi later i changed it again after replacing the img gaskets. filled it up with rotella 5w-40 full syn and a pureone 30001 filter. i will change at a one year interval regardless of mileage in the future.

my question is what oil will give me the most protection (i dont care if its bad for my cat). the owners manual recommends 10w-30 for my climate. rotella t6 full syn 5w-40, t5 10w-30 syn blend, mobil1 10w-30 syn high mileage or m1 0w-40 euro in order of my preference. i would like to stick with a full syn, something not too thick so it doesnt kill my pockets in fuel consumption, and available at wallyworld for a fair price, thanks.

 

[Highline9]

T6 great oil.

 

[jetmech1]

Quote:
i live in nj and do not use this vehicle as a daily driver.


If you haven't already, I would read the Motor Oil University BITOG Motor Oil University on this site. It has some good info concerning why manufactures recomend certain viscosities. I've had a purchase or two like that with sludge issues. It doesn't sound like it received very good maintenance in it's previous life. I personally use T-5 10W-30 in my vehicle as that is the recomended viscosity. The VOA on either of these SOPUS products are excellent IMHO. They'll also clean up that engine too.

Back to the sludge issue; I would personally drive it for the next 3000-4000 miles and pull a sample and send it to Blackstone. It will give you a much better idea of how healthy that MoPar really is. I'm not sure what you got in the way of hills there, but that 8000 Lb trailer will give that 360 a pretty good workout if you have any. Just my 2 cents..........

 

[italian68]

im the third owner on the ram. the original owner bought it in 98 and owned it until 2010. i feel they maintained it fairly well. the second owner who i bought it from was an idiot and i am glad he didnt own it for more than a year until i bought it. it was probably burning oil and needed the intake manifold gasket replaced and they were too cheap so they sold it instead.

i will sample the oil next change. i feel the 360 should have a good amount of life left at only 90k. i have 2 big hills on my ride from home to the shore. i used to tow my boat with a 99 chevy 1500 with a 350 motor. it was a friends truck. when i towed my boat the first time with the ram i hardly noticed it back there compared to the chevy. take it out of overdrive and the hills are not a challenge. it is not a fast truck but it is powerful. its rated for 10k lb towing capacity and feel its cable of that and more. i couldnt afford a diesel.

 

[jetmech1]

Yeah, they're a pretty tough motor. I my last MoPar was an '86 D350 one ton without duals. It was still a carburated engine with non-overdrive transmission, if I remember correctly. I pulled a 7000 lb trailer and it was great on small hills, but took a lot of throttle on 4 to 5% grades. I think it had a fairly short ratio on the final gears for economy which didn't make sense on a 1 ton.

Ditto on the diesel. I have a '95 F-250 extended cab long bed with a 460ci. Boy, does it suck gas!! I used it for my 34 ft 5th wheel. By the time my wife got it (over) loaded down, it probably weighed about 9,500. It was all it could do on some of these 5 percent plus grades here in the Ozarks. Ford really has that engine choked down. It was really begging for diesel torque on some of them...

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: italian68

... i live in nj and do not use this vehicle as a daily driver. .....
... i would estimate 3000 mi per year use or less.
... i will change at a one year interval regardless of mileage in the future.
... my question is what oil will give me the most protection
... i would like to stick with a full syn, something not too thick so it doesnt kill my pockets in fuel consumption, and available at wallyworld for a fair price, thanks.


First - Welcome!

Now, prepare yourself to have your bubble burst.

You don't need a synthetic. Not at all. Not one bit. You might want one, and that's fine, but you don't need one.

You are never going to get so cold in NJ as to "need" a synthetic for cold starts. You're never going to extend your OCI past (approximately 3-4k miles yearly).

There is no reason to think that any major name brand oil would not protect your engine for a long time, safely, for a low cost.

Frankly, given the parameters you've stated, I'd use SuperTech 15w-40 from Walmart. It's inexpensive, has proven to perform well in HDEO applications, and is available everywhere for a low cost. Or, maybe find a brand name you like when it's on sale (Delo, VPB, Tection Extra, Rotella, Delvac, LubriGard, etc).

If you feel you "must" have a thin oil (and I'm a big fan of them) then get a 10w-30 dino oil. That is what I use. Both Walmart and AAP can get 10w-30 Rotella as stocked items; you may not find it on the shelf, but they do have product codes for them. However, you're likely to find a 15w-40 for the least cost. And in your area, 15w-40 is absolutely acceptable. You don't need syns or a 10w-30. You can use them if you choose, but you're not going to get any "better" protection than what any decent 15w-40 conventional oil would provide.


Spend some time looking over the UOA HDEO forum here and you'll see what real data and facts will show. There is a great Cummins UOA where a member here is running 20k miles on dino Valvoline. If he can do that, you can certainly milk out 3k miles a year on any CJ-4 lube you find.

 

[rslifkin]

I've been running my 5.9 on T6 since I bought it, and it's doing quite well. With that low an annual mileage, and probably not many starts below freezing, I'd go with the dino 10W-30 or 15W-40 Rotella, no reason to spend more for no tangible benefit.

As far as life left in the engine, it should be good for quite a while. I had the heads off mine at 119k, and the cylinders still had great cross-hatching, and held a couple ounces of WD-40 overnight with pretty much no leakage. It uses no more than a 1/2 quart of oil in 6k (seems to be a little less after re-doing the top-end), and being that the dipstick only ever drops at all on long highway runs, I'm pretty sure most of the loss is due to oil splash into the PCV system (plenum gasket is good).

 

[A_Harman]

Either T5 10w30 synblend, or M1 HM 10w30, whichever is cheaper.

 

[dnewton3]

M1 HM 10w-30 is not rated above CF. I'd stay away from that.


And just what's wrong with a decent, inexpensive, off-the-shelf dino HDEO?

No significant cold in NJ. 3k mile OCIs a year. No extreme use. Just what justifies a syn? Nothing but oil bigotry.

 

[A_Harman]

Why are you talking about C-rated oils for a 5.9L gas engine?
He kinda threw us a curve ball posting on a gasoline application in the diesel page.

 

[dnewton3]

Yikes! My mistake. I greatly appolgize for my error! Good catch on your part; thank you!

I am embarrased.

I saw Dodge 5.9L in the HDEO forum; thought it was a Cummins.


In this "new" light, I'd say any decent dino PCMO would suffice. Same logic applies. No need for a syn, no ultra cold temps. 5w-30 or 10w-30 in a major brand flavor would do just fine.


I'm going to punish myself; 10 "Hail Moly's" and 5 "Our Filters" and I'll give up desert tonight.

 

[jetmech1]

Quote:
You don't need a synthetic. Not at all. Not one bit. You might want one, and that's fine, but you don't need one.


Agree 100%. My local Wally World carries both T-5 & T-6. The T-5 is $16.00 per gallon which makes it pretty close to premium dino. Super Tech is a lot cheaper though and is perfectly acceptable as stated.

I was only driving my F-250 about the same per year and found that it was not enough. I don't know about there, but most of the gas here has ethanol in it and found that it was causing problems causing the gas to actually go bad before I had burnt it out. They'll probably be a lot of arguments about that, but all I can tell you is that the truck ran like crud after it sat for aver 30-45 days. After I started driving 50 or so miles every week the problems disappeared. Changing brands of gas didn't help either other than when I found a station that had no ethanol in their premium and found that I could let it sit over 6 weeks and it ran great! The only difference was the absence of ethanol. I've had others tell me they had similar problems like mine too that was attribuated to ethanoled fuel. Others will probably say I am "full of it", but that't what happened to me FWIW........

 

[italian68]

thanks for all the great input, i kno i could run dead dinosaurs in my application but for approx 15 bucks more per oil change for syn, why not? if 5w-40 syn vs 15-40 dino can yield me at least 10 dollars in fuel savings over the oci i will throw in the last 5 for syn.

i really like the t5 10w-30 blend. it has some syn in it and is the recommended viscosity in my owners manual. 5 dollars a quart vs 6.50 for t6. i just figured the syn and additives in hdeo would help clean my engine up. im sure i can run supertech 10w-30 dino and my trucks body and frame will completely rot out before the engine wears internally but give me at least 1200 ppm zddp. if i wasnt worried about minimizing the wear on my motor i wouldnt be on bitog!

sorry about posting a gasser in the hdeo section but i just figured b/c im discussing hdeo oil. i also have a 1999 toyota corolla that i would like to share oil with my truck. i hate having different oil for every vehicle at my house and we have 4 cars, this truck, and a boat. the corolla burns a fair amount of oil so i would like to stay on the thick side but it also has a lifter tick on cold startup so i would like to stay somewhat thin also. on this car i average at least 15k a year and would like to use an oil i can run at least 10k on. currently running t6 in both but next oil change it will probably be t5 in both with analysis of the t6 for future comparison.

 

[italian68]

jetmech1, what was your wife (over) loading a 34' fifth wheel with? lol

had a 77 lincoln with a 460 in it. it was rated 225hp, 425tq. with numbers like that you would believe it was barely breathing enough air for a 302ci. the linc averaged 5mpg city and 7-8 hwy. most likely the car responsible for the gas crunch of the 70's.

yes e10 is GARBAGE!!! it looses its volatility and absorbs moisture as soon as (if not sooner) than it is pumped into your tank.

try to keep your tank below 1/4 full and only fill with as much fuel as u will need for one or two trips if not using frequently so u can freshen it up often.

 

[MrRPM]

use a fuel stabilizer and it should stay good for a whole year.

 

[jetmech1]

Quote:
use a fuel stabilizer and it should stay good for a whole year.


Yeah, by the time I figured out it was the ethanol causing the problems, I found the Conoco/Phillips stations that carried the non-ethanol premium for .20 more per gal. No more than I drove it, it didn't seem too bad of a penality. Then I found that Sta-Bil has a special ethanol formula stabilizer. Found it in the boat section. I keep a bottle of it in the truck since non-ethanol gas is hard to find here.

 

[jetmech1]

Quote:
jetmech1, what was your wife (over) loading a 34' fifth wheel with? lol


Well, there's really not enough space here to tell you. LOL! She's a pack rat, but I love her....The upside was if you needed something, more often than not, she had it stuffed somewhere along with enough groceries for about a month!

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: italian68
thanks for all the great input, i kno i could run dead dinosaurs in my application but for approx 15 bucks more per oil change for syn, why not? if 5w-40 syn vs 15-40 dino can yield me at least 10 dollars in fuel savings over the oci i will throw in the last 5 for syn.

i really like the t5 10w-30 blend. it has some syn in it and is the recommended viscosity in my owners manual. 5 dollars a quart vs 6.50 for t6. i just figured the syn and additives in hdeo would help clean my engine up. im sure i can run supertech 10w-30 dino and my trucks body and frame will completely rot out before the engine wears internally but give me at least 1200 ppm zddp. if i wasnt worried about minimizing the wear on my motor i wouldnt be on bitog!


You are falling prey to a few common synthetic misconeptions.

First, you presume that the syn is going to gain you a large amount of savings per OCI for fuel. Fuel consumption is most greatly affected by oil grade, not base-stock. Use a thinner oil and you'll get 'better' mileage.

Further, you have no idea how well the T6 may or may not "clean" versus the T5. You just presume it will. Do you have any idea how well a dino HDEO might clean?

It's clear to me that you want to use a synthetic. Fine. Do it. You'll sleep better at night. But your engine, after 3k miles a year, isn't going to know the difference.

Quote:
i kno i could run dead dinosaurs in my application but for approx 15 bucks more per oil change for syn, why not?

Because with the given situation you state, you're not going to get any return for the extra money you spend, that's why.

You'll find some people here who will tell you what you want to hear; use the synthetics. Fine. Again, do it.

But why not run some testing of your own. Run you dino oil for a few UOAs, and then switch to syn and run some more UOAs. Don't ask us which is better; prove it to us. If you can ...

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
You are falling prey to a few common synthetic misconeptions.

First, you presume that the syn is going to gain you a large amount of savings per OCI for fuel. Fuel consumption is most greatly affected by oil grade, not base-stock. Use a thinner oil and you'll get 'better' mileage.
hi dnewton3!
1) Is it not true that dino 15W-40 is much more viscous at startup and at operating temps than 5W-40 synthetic ?
2) When you say a thinner dino oil will give comparable fuel economy as a nearest grade synthetic, in your above post, are you comparing a 5W-30 Dino with a 5W-30 synthetic, or other ?

 

[rufushusky]

Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
You are falling prey to a few common synthetic misconeptions.

First, you presume that the syn is going to gain you a large amount of savings per OCI for fuel. Fuel consumption is most greatly affected by oil grade, not base-stock. Use a thinner oil and you'll get 'better' mileage.
hi dnewton3!
1) Is it not true that dino 15W-40 is much more viscous at startup and at operating temps than 5W-40 synthetic ?
2) When you say a thinner dino oil will give comparable fuel economy as a nearest grade synthetic, in your above post, are you comparing a 5W-30 Dino with a 5W-30 synthetic, or other ?


Where are ya in MA? I am down in Walpole.

Anyways a 15w is more viscous at start up but at operating temp they will be very close together since they are both 40 weight operating oils.

For example Valvoline premium blue comes in conventional and synthetic flavors...

15w40 has viscosities of 118/15.2 @ 40/100*C
5w40 is 88.6/14.5 @ the same temps

So the 5w40 is significantly lighter/less viscous at 40*C but only slightly less viscous at operating temp...certainly not enough to make a difference in fuel economy IMHO.