Rotated my tires today...

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Originally Posted By: FZ1
I buy at Discount Tire. Free rotations so I never have to do it myself. Check it out. .


Got a 4 wheel rotation, one dismount/patch/remount/balance and a TPMS reset...all for free on my OEM tires at DT the other day.

GREAT place to do business for those of us in the lower 48.
 
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Thank you for your post CapriRacer. I will follow up with Customer Service on Monday.... should be interesting.
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If you'll wait a few days, I'll give you the Technical Service Bulletin number, so you'll be properly armed.
 
- AND - just so this is clear:

This is a General Motors warranty on tires, not a tire manufacturer's warranty! You can only get this coverage at a GM dealer. You will NEVER get the coverage at a tire dealer!

What happens is that the GM dealer submits a claim to GM, and sends the tires to the tire manufacturer. The claim is also sent electronically to the tire manufacturer. GM issues credit to the dealer. The tire manufacturer inspects the tires and decides if the tire is covered by 1) the tire warranty, 1) the GM warranty, or 3) not covered. That determination is transmitted electronically back to GM.

At that time, GM 1) take a credit from their payment to the tire manufacturer (for tires supplied to the assembly plants), 2) rescinds their payment to the dealer, or 3) does nothing.

What I find very interesting is that there are GM dealers who STILL - after 14 years! - do not know that tires are covered. This has got to be the best kept secret of a potential selling feature EVER!
 
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They ARE warranted-I had the same funky inside wear problem on the rears on the '03 Pontiac Vibe I used to have, they replaced them with another set of tires, which wore just as badly as the first set did, car was bought back by GM for CEL trouble that no dealer could fix.
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: FZ1
I buy at Discount Tire. Free rotations so I never have to do it myself. Check it out. .


Got a 4 wheel rotation, one dismount/patch/remount/balance and a TPMS reset...all for free on my OEM tires at DT the other day.

GREAT place to do business for those of us in the lower 48.
Only way to fly down here. Lot's of locations for service. Quarterly email rotation reminders.
 
Perhaps this document I found on-line would explain what CapriRacer was talking about, below is an exerpt:

Document ID# 2034415

Subject: Revised General Motors New Vehicle Tire Warranty Program #00-03-10-003M - (10/29/2007)

Models: 1996-2008 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks:


The GM New Vehicle Tire Warranty

GM provides it's customers with comprehensive coverage on OEM new vehicle tires. In many cases this warranty exceeds the coverage provided by the tire manufacturers themselves. The GM new vehicle tire warranty program is designed to offer dealers the required amount of latitude to handle any type of tire concern and repair the customers vehicle with a minimum of approvals. The web based feedback structure for reporting and shipping tire returns remains unchanged.
Program Rules and Information

The sections below detail what conditions are warrantable under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty. All tire warranty replacements made by a GM dealer are without a mileage pro-rate charge.
What Is Covered

Only Original Equipment (OE) tires are covered against defects in material and workmanship. OE tires will have a Tire Performance Criteria (TPC) number molded on the sidewall near the tire size. (Exceptions: Vibe, and Aveo, do not use TPC tires, but are still covered.) Any replaced tire will continue to be covered for the remaining portion of the New Vehicle Warranty. Tires will be warranted without prorated charges for tread mileage.

Important: Tires purchased by consumers beyond the New Vehicle Bumper-to-Bumper coverage or even replaced during the Bumper-to-Bumper coverage for wear out are warranted by the tire manufacturer (including tires purchased through the Goodwrench Tire Program). Contact the tire manufacturer for warranty processing instructions.

Following expiration of GM's coverage, tires may continue to be warranted, on a pro-rated basis, by the tire manufacturer. Review the tire manufacturer's booklet (included as part of the glove box material).
What Is Not Covered
• Non-original equipment tires (those without a TPC number molded on the sidewall (except Aveo and Vibe) are not covered.
• Normal tire wear and wear out is not covered.

Important: Tire wear greatly varies by both the tire type installed and the driving habits of the owner. OEM tires installed on GM vehicles are evaluated for many different criteria and may have been selected to optimize handling, ride quality, load carrying or traction demands. Different types of tires will experience different rates of wear, resulting from all of the above factors. No warranty is offered on the usable tread life of the tires.

• Uneven wear from damaged, worn or mis-aligned suspension components is not covered unless the wear has resulted from a warrantable suspension condition. Tire replacements resulting from these allowable suspension conditions should be included on the same RO#. (If this is not possible the RO# for the tire replacement should reference the RO# the warrantable suspension component/condition is listed on, or be attached).
• Road hazard is not covered. This includes punctures, cuts, impact breaks, etc.


I assume that the fact that GM installed the shim in the rear axle and performed a 4 wheel alignment NO CHARGE would amount to a warrantable suspension condition.
 
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Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Perhaps this document I found on-line would explain what CapriRacer was talking about, below is an exerpt:

Document ID# 2034415

Subject: Revised General Motors New Vehicle Tire Warranty Program #00-03-10-003M - (10/29/2007)

Models: 1996-2008 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks:


The GM New Vehicle Tire Warranty

..........


Yup, That's the one! However there is a more current update.
 
I just talked with GM Customer Service and gave him that document number 00-03-10-003M and he "miraculously" found it in his computer system.
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He did also say that there was newer "N" "O" versions and that now it does indeed look like I may be eligible for tire replacement.

He is going to do further investigation and get back to me soon... more to follow.
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The O.E. GoodYear Integrity tires on the van right now measure 8/32 min on all tires.. that is with just a tick under 30k miles on them.

Other than the alignment induced noise in them I really have no complaints. I hope I get another set with the corrected alignment.
 
Nobody ever answered my question. How can an alignment problem cause a problem with only one tire, and the problem only suraces AFTER a tire rotation?
 
It was really only 1 rear that was out of alignment on my van and the problem became appearant when that rear wheel rotated to the front.
That being said, all the tires had a certain degree of wear as they had resided on that rear wheel position at one time but this last rotation seemed worse.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Nobody ever answered my question. How can an alignment problem cause a problem with only one tire, and the problem only suraces AFTER a tire rotation?


First, every wheel position on a vehicle has camber and toe. The only time the alignment on a given wheel position is related to one another is if there is a physical connection between the 2 sides. 2 Examples: Toe on the steer postions. Solid axle on the rear of a RWD.

So it is possible to have a misalignment condition on only one wheel position. That misalignment can cause irregular wear on one tire.

Rear wheel positions are further away from the driver, so a vibrating tire may be undetectable when it is on the rear, but when it moves to the front, the steering wheel vibrates - which is easily detectable.

And don't forget that a tire can start to have a small amount of irregular wear on a front position, then when it moves to a rear position, the wear will continue to get worse. When it is moved back to the front, the vibration becomes apparent. It may seem like magic, but the source of the problem occurred long ago!
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: grampi
Nobody ever answered my question. How can an alignment problem cause a problem with only one tire, and the problem only suraces AFTER a tire rotation?


First, every wheel position on a vehicle has camber and toe. The only time the alignment on a given wheel position is related to one another is if there is a physical connection between the 2 sides. 2 Examples: Toe on the steer postions. Solid axle on the rear of a RWD.

So it is possible to have a misalignment condition on only one wheel position. That misalignment can cause irregular wear on one tire.

Rear wheel positions are further away from the driver, so a vibrating tire may be undetectable when it is on the rear, but when it moves to the front, the steering wheel vibrates - which is easily detectable.

And don't forget that a tire can start to have a small amount of irregular wear on a front position, then when it moves to a rear position, the wear will continue to get worse. When it is moved back to the front, the vibration becomes apparent. It may seem like magic, but the source of the problem occurred long ago!


I understand all that, but here's what I don't understand. I never felt the bad tire until I rotated it to the front. Then I rotated it to the back right away and I can still feel it. If the tire was bad before I rotated it to the front (which it would be if this is being caused by an alignment problem), then why couldn't I feel it before I rotated it to the front? It's as if the tire wasn't actually bad until I rotated it.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
I understand all that, but here's what I don't understand. I never felt the bad tire until I rotated it to the front. Then I rotated it to the back right away and I can still feel it.........


Ah ....... if you remember correctly, after the second rotation, you didn't feel it at first, then you did.

It is a human characteristic to get sensitized to something. It's apparent you were unaware of the problem until the first rotation, then after you discovered it, it became easier to feel. Even after the second rotation it still was not that easy to find, but you eventually did.
 
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HERE is a copy of my alignment printout...

My son has borrowed the scanner so I had to take a photo of the sheet. Is it a good alignment ? The tech said that he couldn't get it "right on".

The top half is when he had installed the rear axle shim and the bottom is the final alignment. Is it acceptable??

Photobucket doesn't show it full size, if you need numbers or an email of a larger scan please PM and I'll send it to you.
 
I think anything over a degree of camber is excessive, but I doubt you'll get any GM shop adjust a vehicle that way. If they did, then the dealership would have to eat any subsequent costs involved.
 
A beacon of light in the darkness and shadows ....

I took my alignment printout back to Greg at Tech Tire here in Leamington, the technician who first sent me to the dealer because he wouldn't sell me tires with the bad suspension.
He took the time to assure me that all was well with the alignment the dealer did, even though he knew that the dealer was giving me 4 new tires and Greg wasn't going to make a dime.
THANK YOU, GREG !!
Your honesty and advice allowed me to get GM to repair the factory mislaignment in the axle and replace all 4 tires.
You had 1 chance to make a moral and honest decision and you did it in spades. Cudos to you !!
GM had numerous opportunities to do the right thing and came up short ..... I did however hound them into replacing all 4 tires.

Score:
Greg at Tech Tire in Leamington-- 10
GM Canada ------------------------1

Greg also said that he had seen this thread so I think he may be a BITOG fan. Anyone in S.W. Ontario who wants an honest shake on tires or work should give Greg a call (519) 324-0400.
If the mods have to remove the number, PM me and I'll give you the contact info. Googling Tech Tire Leamington will set you on the right path. Honesty and integrity should be applauded.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
On our Escape the tires will "feather" on the inside and outside of the all the tires if I run above 30psi. I ran 35psi in them for a while and really wish I hadn't even the center tread is showing a increase in wear.


Eric,

You're problem is the Escape. It has too much camber and even a little bit of toe causes wear problems.

Get as much of the camber out as you can and set the toe to nominal.


Yeah your right got to looking at it the other day. You can tell the toe is way off. I guess I resisted this notion since it's been the same since we got it at 32k. Getting it aligned tomorrow.
 
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