Roof replacement from hail damage!?

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Most of the people around here that got scammed by contractors all made the same kinds of mistakes . First of all , they paid money up front , no contract , out of town contractor or a local with no references .
 
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I would agree that as far as Class 2 SBS shingles go Malarkey offers the best product. Anything else as far as asphalt or SBS shingles I would only recommend the Atlas brand. Owens Corning has screwed too many people over in the past with poor product quality for me to ever trust them.
Frankly for all the vitriol I see on this website about the car business I find it interesting how much worse the construction business is and how there is little to no awareness of it comparatively speaking.
In my part of California, GAF rules the market, Home Depot moves a decent amount of them. I’ve seen more bundles of GAF Timberlines on the backs of ABC and Beacon trucks, but for some reason Beacon pushes Certainteed and OC. When we got roofing quotes, it was a even split between GAF and OC. Many roofers here in the 1990s pushed either Elk or Tamko. I’ve heard good things about Atlas, not available in CA. From my observations between a GAF Timberline HDZ and an OC Duration, the OC felt better to me.

Yea, I’ve been in on a few conversations between my parents and contractors and the hustle is bad - the salesmen bring on the pressure. A few friends have told me about hack contractors and handymen they had do work for them. And I do see the fly-by-night handyman at the orange box.
 
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In my part of California, GAF rules the market, Home Depot moves a decent amount of them. I’ve seen more bundles of GAF Timberlines on the backs of ABC and Beacon trucks, but for some reason Beacon pushes Certainteed and OC. When we got roofing quotes, it was a even split between GAF and OC. Many roofers here in the 1990s pushed either Elk or Tamko. I’ve heard good things about Atlas, not available in CA. From my observations between a GAF Timberline HDZ and an OC Duration, the OC felt better to me.

Yea, I’ve been in on a few conversations between my parents and contractors and the hustle is bad - the salesmen bring on the pressure. A few friends have told me about hack contractors and handymen they had do work for them. And I do see the fly-by-night handyman at the orange box.

The reality is that ALL basic shingles with any asphalt content are effectively no different in quality and life expectancy. All use the most minimal amount of asphalt (bitumen) and make of what in previous years was asphalt content with filler, in the past decade that has shifted to limestone. Brand doesn't matter, except for Atlas because they use a slightly higher copper content in their granules which is more resistant to biological growth, and they are being mass produced at a rate that quality control has been completely thrown out the window. I would say for most basic shingles the life expectancy is 10 years under the absolute best conditions with proper installation and building science behind it. Most people will likely get 5 to 8 years out of those products now.

Class 2 or Class 4 shingles and/or SBS have become a significant upgrade in terms of quality and life expectancy. I am a huge fan of metal roofing myself, the Decra brand in particular.
 

GON

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There's a difference between filing a claim and having it approved. My story above is an example. If my premium goes up as a direct result of on the same block replacement but mine wasn't - that's dirty business and I question the legality.
From what I understand, from a State Farm agent, simply filing a claim is a charge against you. Even if the insurance company pays out zero dollars. Filling a claim, per the State Farm agent, can be a costly action, and should only be done if one has full confidence the claim is an event the insurance company will pay on.

My deductible is $1,000. I would not consider filing a claim unless the damages exceeded 10k. Insurance claims are historical, and possibly derogatory events that are historical to the property and might come back to haunt someone when they go to sell their home.
 
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Daytona Beach
What I'm reading here is a lot of people think that everybody is a shyster out to screw you over . Sure , it happens . But in my area there are a dozen good reputable roofing companies and you are free to use whomever you want . None of them want payment up front . If you're foolish enough to do business with some out of town " traveler " then you deserve what you get . If you are forced to use someone unfamiliar then do not pay up front .
No, that's not EXACTLY what you are reading here. What most here are saying is that this is a new business model for roofers, even excellent ones, and it's coming at the expense of higher Homeowners Insurance premiums, and here in FL, the possibility of not being insurable at ALL!

The roofing contractors have figured out that ALMOST everyone is looking for free anything, and very few people have the morals to turn that down when offered.

I also must add, even though your rates may not go up immediately, they are certain to go up at next renewal, just like auto insurance.
That claim also stays on your record for 5 years. Pray that you don't need to switch companies or move to a new house before then.
 
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No, that's not EXACTLY what you are reading here. What most here are saying is that this is a new business model for roofers, even excellent ones, and it's coming at the expense of higher Homeowners Insurance premiums, and here in FL, the possibility of not being insurable at ALL!

The roofing contractors have figured out that ALMOST everyone is looking for free anything, and very few people have the morals to turn that down when offered.

I also must add, even though your rates may not go up immediately, they are certain to go up at next renewal, just like auto insurance.
That claim also stays on your record for 5 years. Pray that you don't need to switch companies or move to a new house before then.
Pretty much everything you said is incorrect . It's not a new business model . It has nothing to do with morality . You pay for insurance you expect them to pay for damage . I've changed homeowners insurance three times since I have lived in this house and the issue of prior claims has never come up . Every time I changed it was to save money .
 
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Pretty much everything you said is incorrect . It's not a new business model . It has nothing to do with morality . You pay for insurance you expect them to pay for damage . I've changed homeowners insurance three times since I have lived in this house and the issue of prior claims has never come up . Every time I changed it was to save money .
Not here it isn't.
 
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Appleton, WI
No, that's not EXACTLY what you are reading here. What most here are saying is that this is a new business model for roofers, even excellent ones, and it's coming at the expense of higher Homeowners Insurance premiums, and here in FL, the possibility of not being insurable at ALL!

The roofing contractors have figured out that ALMOST everyone is looking for free anything, and very few people have the morals to turn that down when offered.

I also must add, even though your rates may not go up immediately, they are certain to go up at next renewal, just like auto insurance.
That claim also stays on your record for 5 years. Pray that you don't need to switch companies or move to a new house before then.

This is not a new business model by any means, hail chasers have been around and operating for a long time. As far as the roofing business in particular yes much of the business model has shifted to trolling around and trying to convince people that they have an issue and instilling as much anxiety as possible in the customer to get a sale out of them. Again they are not buying a roof as much as they are buying into anxiety relief and the end result is a new roof of some sort whether they actually want or even need any roofing solution at all.
 
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Pennsylvania
This does happen and is the reason homeowner insurance is skyrocketing and in many states becoming unavailable. The outcome is we will all be paying 2-5x what we previously paid for insurance in the coming year or two. There is pending and passing legislation in most states that limit payout to the prorated value of your roof, not replacement value.
 
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Scruffy City
there is a lot to unpack here but a few quick hits.

Roofers "manufacturing" damage is a thing. It is well documented and there have been news pieces on it.

I would never let someone who cold called me on the roof without checking them out.

Normally these contractors ask you to sign a contract before they will negotiate/meet with a insurance company, that does two things it locks the job in for them and it also releases replacement cost when there is a signed contract.
 
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I've never seen an insurance company approve a new roof without sending their own adjuster to verify .

In my recent experience I've had several customers whose insurance providers request that the construction company provide them with a quote/estimate without ever sending out an adjuster. I'm inclined to believe that either the companies do not have a adjusters or their adjusters are not particularly well versed in roofing and building science.
 
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Daytona Beach
This is not a new business model by any means, hail chasers have been around and operating for a long time. As far as the roofing business in particular yes much of the business model has shifted to trolling around and trying to convince people that they have an issue and instilling as much anxiety as possible in the customer to get a sale out of them. Again they are not buying a roof as much as they are buying into anxiety relief and the end result is a new roof of some sort whether they actually want or even need any roofing solution at all.
Did you follow the link I provided above? Do you think the Governor of a state would need to get involved if there wasn't some sort of scam going on?
paulswadgelock seems to have it figured out.
 
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Jan 2, 2004
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California
The reality is that ALL basic shingles with any asphalt content are effectively no different in quality and life expectancy. All use the most minimal amount of asphalt (bitumen) and make of what in previous years was asphalt content with filler, in the past decade that has shifted to limestone. Brand doesn't matter, except for Atlas because they use a slightly higher copper content in their granules which is more resistant to biological growth, and they are being mass produced at a rate that quality control has been completely thrown out the window. I would say for most basic shingles the life expectancy is 10 years under the absolute best conditions with proper installation and building science behind it. Most people will likely get 5 to 8 years out of those products now.
I was nerding out over shingles - besides cost cutting(I remember as a kid seeing 20/30/40/50 year shingles for sale at the lumberyard) there’s been consolidation. It seems like 3M supplies the granules for many of the shingle brands except for GAF who makes their own. OC might be the most integrated of them with their own asphalt processing and glass mat factories, they also supply IKO via a joint venture. The only differences I see is nailing zone/adhesive lines, color blending/banding and shape of the tabs.

But yea, now that you say it, I have my doubts a standard “architectural” shingle can be a “lifetime” item. I got OC Duration Cool installed on my parent’s roof, their neighbors went with GAF Timberline HD(Z), two other neighbors are in need of roofs, one had Elk 40 year “luxury” shingles, the other Tamko. I’m seeing the houses roofed with Tamko when it was popular here(Elk was the more expensive option) showing bare fiberglass mat.
 
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I was nerding out over shingles - besides cost cutting(I remember as a kid seeing 20/30/40/50 year shingles for sale at the lumberyard) there’s been consolidation. It seems like 3M supplies the granules for many of the shingle brands except for GAF who makes their own. OC might be the most integrated of them with their own asphalt processing and glass mat factories, they also supply IKO via a joint venture. The only differences I see is nailing zone/adhesive lines, color blending/banding and shape of the tabs.

But yea, now that you say it, I have my doubts a standard “architectural” shingle can be a “lifetime” item. I got OC Duration Cool installed on my parent’s roof, their neighbors went with GAF Timberline HD(Z), two other neighbors are in need of roofs, one had Elk 40 year “luxury” shingles, the other Tamko. I’m seeing the houses roofed with Tamko when it was popular here(Elk was the more expensive option) showing bare fiberglass mat.

The "lifetime" shingle is pure marketing based around the fact that the manufacturers can legally get away with referring to them as such with no substance whatsoever behind what that term is perceived to mean. It really began with the offering of manufacturer warranties to said products and the problem was exacerbated by the fact that Owens Corning famously lost a class action lawsuit in which they had to pay every consumer involved in the lawsuit $600, which they could only use to purchase Owens Corning products. Owens Corning actually had their top year in profit as a result of losing that class action lawsuit and what followed was that every manufacturer realizing that they could literally do whatever they wanted as far as marketing. Again the key is writing the warranty, by legal definition, to cover all bases as far as finding any reason to disqualify warranty claims.

James Hardie, the company that makes fiber cement siding, has a legal department that is the envy of every company in the construction materials manufacturing industry. They have NEVER paid a single penny out in warranty claims and they are known for producing two sets of installation instructions. One is a few pages which most installers use and the one you MUST use to actually get warranty coverage is 200+ pages of excessive detail on every aspect of everything that must be done to absolute spec to even be able to have a warranty claim considered.

There is a lot more that I can get into but suffice it all to say that probably 99% of the warranties out there are completely worthless if you are a consumer.
 
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Amherst, MA, usa
Cold calls give me suspicion. It seems that this roofer is drumming up business in a new way.
yes, it IS new. Some pre-screen an area with news reports'n send out a drone w/vid camera to spot claims. They R
big enuff co.s to have this ability, staff, etc.
 
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yes, it IS new. Some pre-screen an area with news reports'n send out a drone w/vid camera to spot claims. They R
big enuff co.s to have this ability, staff, etc.

Same old business with new tactics and technology. I drive through neighborhoods and notice issues with roofing all the time, when I go out to someone's house on an appointment for a roofing project I can usually drive up to the house and know issues likely exist within seconds.

Roofing salesmen literally drive their company vehicles through neighborhoods looking for the same things, now they have drones to more easily get detailed information on issues usually without anyone noticing on the internet's allows them to easily access a homeowner's information.
 
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Scruffy City
and the NWS/SPC - you can see hail reports for many years back. to 99 or 2000 if i remember right.

I think it is Verisk (AKA Exactware) or Eagleview thats hiring drone pilots to do inspections / mapping if the insurance company will pay for it your house can be pretty much pre built in Exactimate, just add inside walls if needed... Even the contractors use roof measurements from Eagleview or whatever the other one is...


 

JHZR2

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Class 2 or Class 4 shingles and/or SBS have become a significant upgrade in terms of quality and life expectancy. I am a huge fan of metal roofing myself, the Decra brand in particular.

Yeah but the metal roof sellers are thieves themselves.
 
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Yeah but the metal roof sellers are thieves themselves.
Lots of people in my parent’s neighborhood got metal roofs installed - so far they outlasted the ones with shingles(mostly Tamko Heritage and Elk) done at the same time(1997-1999), the dude who did them however was charging $18-20K for them in 1998 dollars.
 
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