Rislone ZDDP - Jeep 4.0L

[jeepman3071]

Theres many debates about the current oils with lower ZDDP levels being good enough for the Jeep 4.0L with the flat tappet cam. I've always run Rotella T 5w40 with 1 quart MMO for a 4K mile OCI. My 4.0 has some valvetrain noise like most, and the Rislone ZDDP additive was recommended to me by an older gentlemen with a Jeep as well as some members of Jeep forums. Most said it helped quiet the valvetrain.

I used the recommended 1 quart Rislone ZDDP and the rest Rotella T. My valvetrain seems a little louder, and my oil pressure a tad higher. Is the Rislone much thicker? Or could this be due to not running the MMO? I'm wondering if the Rislone is too thick and I should just go back to 5 quarts Rotella T and 1 quart MMO. Thanks for any advice.

 

[UNC017]

I have no idea how thick Rislone is, but if you dropped your MMO that could be the cause for the higher observed oil pressure.

Given that Rotella T6 has >1000 ppm of ZDDP already, there's not really any need to add MORE. For that matter, 4.0s seem perfectly happy on oils with ~700 PPM. Those are pretty big lifters and pretty soft valve springs in that engine- it doesn't abuse the cam too much. I also don't see any need for MMO with an oil that cleans as well as T6, but that's your call too.

As for the noise... I've never understood why anyone would ever expect a Jeep 4.0 to be quiet! ;-) I'm not poking fun at you, but that engine just naturally makes its own small symphony of sounds, and there's very little done to the engine itself to hide the sounds it makes from the driver (no double-wall or plastic coated valve covers or oil pans, for example). I've noticed that the two I own also sound rather different from each other, and change sounds with different ambient temperatures and other factors too. 4.0s definitely have an individual personality.

 

[scurvy]

I think you should go back to Rotella T6 5w40 and forget all the extra juice. Zinc & Phosphorus levels, even for CJ-4, are nearly identical to the previous CI-4+ levels.

 

[jeepman3071]

Haha I know the 4.0 is in no way a quiet engine. This is my third Cherokee. I'm just not sure why it would get louder. I will probably run just the Rotella T 5w40 from now on, or the Rotella and MMO. Is 4K a good OCI? I use it as a commuter vehicle to school and only drive about 8 miles one way.

 

[JHZR2]

Given the doping with quarts of either MMO or this stuff, who knows what you actually have!

Id bet that the viscosity has gone up quite a bit compared to with the MMO in there. Id pull a PDS for the rislone zddp and see what it says about viscosity.

Id not worry about zddp with an HDEO, for now at least!

 

[Johnny]

The RT 5W-40 has more than enough ZDDP for your 4.0L Jeep.

 

[chubbs1]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
I think you should go back to Rotella T6 5w40 and forget all the extra juice. Zinc & Phosphorus levels, even for CJ-4, are nearly identical to the previous CI-4+ levels.


Amen...No Risolone I tried all that [censored] in my jeep, I think at beast they were a waste of money at worst it made the thing louder.

 

[unDummy]

http://www.barsproducts.com/tech/4401_tech.pdf

 

[addyguy]

That Rislone stuff actually looks pretty decent!

Where's TallPaul??? He loves this kinda stuff!

 

[rslifkin]

Rislone isn't bad stuff, but with Rotella 5W-40, it shouldn't be needed in a 4.0. The Rotella should have enough ZDDP on its own.

I'm currently running my Mom's 4.0 on T6 with a 5k OCI, but she does a lot of short trips (3.5 mile commute each way). 4k is probably a bit conservative for your use, especially being that the 4.0 holds 6 quarts of oil.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Haha I know the 4.0 is in no way a quiet engine. This is my third Cherokee. I'm just not sure why it would get louder. I will probably run just the Rotella T 5w40 from now on, or the Rotella and MMO. Is 4K a good OCI? I use it as a commuter vehicle to school and only drive about 8 miles one way.


I run >6k on both my Cherokees (well, my daughter actually drives the '99). The couple of times I've done a used oil analysis, they both could go much longer-probably 10k to 12k. With only an 8 mile commute, you might build up water, fuel, and acids a little faster than mine do, but probably not much. Using T6 I'd say you're certainly safe to 6k if not more. Just use good filters that will go that distance also. Most Cherokees have plenty of room to run an FL1A equivalent filter. My pick is the Purolator Pure One PL30001 (see this thread )

 

[jeepman3071]

Thats actually the exact filter I normally use. This oil change is the only exception since advance was out of the Pure Ones. I just grabbed a Mopar filter since it was the only thing they had besides Fram and STP. Would running a quart of MMO change the oil change interval? I ran straight T6 for a few months but the jeep seems to run the quietest with a quart of MMO added. Just not sure if the MMO breaks down or should only be kept in for a certain amount of time.

 

[badtlc]

How many quarts does the sump hold? If it is 6 quarts, you just reduced the starting TBN by 17%. You'd probably need to shorten the OCI by at least 17% to be safe. Throw in the fact that acid formation increases with the use of MMO (which uses up TBN) means you'd probably want to reduce the OCI by a minimum of 20%.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
How many quarts does the sump hold? If it is 6 quarts, you just reduced the starting TBN by 17%. You'd probably need to shorten the OCI by at least 17% to be safe. Throw in the fact that acid formation increases with the use of MMO (which uses up TBN) means you'd probably want to reduce the OCI by a minimum of 20%.


With the larger than stock Pure One filter the capacity is around 6 and 1/4 quarts. Based on the info above about Rotella T, would this mean that I would be safe running 1 quart of MMO for 4-5k miles? I see short trips during the week and some highway on weekends.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: badtlc
How many quarts does the sump hold? If it is 6 quarts, you just reduced the starting TBN by 17%. You'd probably need to shorten the OCI by at least 17% to be safe. Throw in the fact that acid formation increases with the use of MMO (which uses up TBN) means you'd probably want to reduce the OCI by a minimum of 20%.


With the larger than stock Pure One filter the capacity is around 6 and 1/4 quarts. Based on the info above about Rotella T, would this mean that I would be safe running 1 quart of MMO for 4-5k miles? I see short trips during the week and some highway on weekends.


Yes, you're probably safe. Spend the $30 for an analysis at about 5k miles on the T6/MMO mix and see where the TBN is at, that should give you a better idea on how long to run the next change under your driving style- used oil analysis aren't the be-all end-all and 100% accurate, but it beats a bunch of us sitting around guessing!

I guess I'm going to have to try MMO myself one of these days, since I'm still a skeptic about it making anything audibly quieter. I've seen used oil analysis with MMO on this site that look fantastic, so I don't think its particularly harmful, I just don't believe that it can possibly do everything people say it does and I always tend to think its placebo effect when anyone says any oil made their engine sound quieter.

 

[rslifkin]

Most of the time, an oil making an engine quieter is placebo effect. However, there are times where a viscosity change or something can make a difference, such as causing lifters to pump up better, particularly if they're a bit clogged. Whether or not it makes a difference depends on the engine and situation.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Most of the time, an oil making an engine quieter is placebo effect. However, there are times where a viscosity change or something can make a difference, such as causing lifters to pump up better, particularly if they're a bit clogged. Whether or not it makes a difference depends on the engine and situation.


True, its easy for a different oil to change the initial startup sound, but its even easier for an oil filter to change that (bad vs. good ADBV). Its claims of quieter idling, "smoother" etc. that I always find hard to believe, but I don't *quite* dismiss them either because it is theoretically possible.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Its claims of quieter idling, "smoother" etc. that I always find hard to believe, but I don't *quite* dismiss them either because it is theoretically possible.


Yeah I hear ya there. My engine definitely doesn't idle any better, and to be honest I am a skeptic of stuff at first as well. I was told by an old farmer friend to try the MMO, and I added a half quart of it only because I figured it couldn't hurt. Sure enough it gradually started getting quieter. Even my friend said it seemed quieter while driving, and he didn't know I put the MMO in. The reason I think it works is because it cleans really well keeping the lifters from getting gunk in them. Its also very thin (5w I think?) which helps with start up. I've been told it also coats parts with a thin layer to keep them lubricated. Out of all the "additives" or "fixes in a can" MMO is the only one that actually worked for me and the only one I will recommend to other people. I'd give it a shot. I had it in my jeep for about 1k miles or so before it really started making a difference.

 

[ckmarsh]

I have a 1996 jeep 4L motor I am trying to learn about all this newer motor oil has less zinc and thats bad for my jeep?

I have Valvoline MaxLife in it API SM what oil should i be using it looks like i should be putting Rislone or some type moly in it ?

 

[unDummy]

A quart of Marvel Mystery oil with 5w40 will give you a 5w30.
A quart of Rislone zddp(15w40ish) with 5w40 gives you a solid 40 weight oil and you might lose the 5w(might be a 10w now).
Thats a big difference between the two homebrews.
If you want to use the Rislone ZDDP, mix it with 5w30 oil.

ckmarsh, you don't need to add anything to your oil. Just practice a safe/sane oil change intervals for your driving style. Stick with a quality oil. I think that Valvoline Maxlife is a good choice for the 3k-5k OCI.