Rigorous Field Testing

[buster]

Quote:
Some companies use meaningless bench tests to demonstrate superior performance. Although bench testing may be used in industry engine specifications, they are rarely used as the definitive discriminator for actual field performance. This is especially true of four ball testing, flash point, and other simple analytical measurements. The real proof of performance is done with rigorous engine and field testing. These tests are statistically controlled and are more representative of the performance you will see in your own vehicle.


www.mobiloil.com

 

[Mokanic]

Perhaps recent bench testing of their products has not gone so well in comparison to other products??

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Mokanic
Perhaps recent bench testing of their products has not gone so well in comparison to other products??


That is true, especially the 4-ball wear test. Put it this way, if your oil was not performing superior on the 4-ball wear test for over 7 years,(based on Amsoil advertising) wouldn't you have fixed it? XOM doesn't seem to pay attention to it.

 

[saaber1]

I agree real-world testing is invaluable. There is no better real-world testing than everyday use. Some claim that only Mobil or X company does field testing and that "boutique" oils are bad because they don't. What about the thousands of cars raced, daily-driven etc. with some of these boutique oils with amazing success after hundreds of thousands of miles (based on teardowns)?

I would rather have a boutique oil such as Amsoil, Redline, etc. with a proven real-world track record than a big oil company that uses marketing to push their product into every hole imaginable. You cannot separate marketing pressures from the discussion. It plays a role in everything, from what the owners manual says as an OCI, to what the oil filler cap says, to what dealers are told to use and do.

The whole trick for us as consumers is to get marketing out of the picture and judge an oils performance objectively based on all info. available. Thus we should be skeptical of posters who doggedly support only one brand or never say anything at all negative about one brand. Likewise we should be critical of dealers and manufacturers and not just blindly take things on authority. Also we should be skeptical of marketing info. of course from any company.

This quote from Dyson is illustrative:

"reb03, the Mobil 1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it."

 

[buster]

Quote:
This quote from Dyson is illustrative:

"reb03, the Mobil 1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it."


Agree saaber with what you said.

Those are Dyson's "opinions" though. He doesn't have all the answers either. The company he was referring too was Castrol.

The issues he is referring too can't be solved with lubricants, despite what he says. They can be improved to a certain degree, but overall it's a mechanical/engineering issue with the engine builder.

I think Mobil and Redline are the two best oil marketers.

People tend to dislike Mobil 1 because it's the product of a very large corporation. Mobil 1 though is their flagship product and the success they have had in racing speaks volumes.

Quote:
“When I was challenged by Herb Fishel to establish the Corvette Racing team, the decision over which motor oil we would run was one I didn’t need to linger over,” said Doug Fehan, GM Program Manager, Corvette Racing. “Mobil 1 has an unrivalled record with engine designers and tuners. The decision was a simple one.”

As Mike Atkins, Purchasing/Customer Service Manager for Pratt & Miller, explains, “Mobil 1 has always been highly regarded throughout GM by the GTO, Cadillac and GTS V8 race program teams. We needed a lubricant to initially maximize power and reliability of the Corvette’s road-orientated engine but also provide a stable platform from which to help develop its potential.” Mobil 1 5w30 is also currently used by the ECOTEC Powered Pontiac Solstice GXP Drift Team and Cobalt SS Sports Compact Drag Racing teams.

During this decade of development, the team has continued using Mobil 1 lubricants on the strength of the tests undertaken. “Why Mobil 1 after 10 years? “asks Doug Fehan. “Well, nobody’s developed anything better.”
Maximizing performance parameters


Marketing for sure, but also a good track record of success. Corvette racing dominates.

 

[buster]

Another thing to keep in mind, not all of the small boutique players play by the same rules. They also use marketing in gimmicky ways. Some have also been shaddy in the past. It's not just the big guys that use marketing to sell their product.

 

[saaber1]

We need to start the "BITOG testing division" and have our own real-world tests from numerous oils and engines! : )

I agree we have to be critical of all marketing and glean from it what we can but never take it on authority or face value IMO.

 

[Mokanic]

I would really like to see a "field-test" such as the one Mobil 1 did with the taxi fleet in Vegas where half the fleet was run on M1 product and the other half was run on X- brand product. Of course X-brand product needs to be a comparable product such as Amsoil,Royal Purple,ect. Tear them down after 100K and measure wear,deposit buildup. The benifit of alot of these field tests is that the maker of the product is controlling the tests and no comparison is made to a product of the same type. We have all seen the tests comparing a top-line synthetic to a conventional oil and that's just boring.

 

[Dave Hess]

Maybe "boutique players" sell so little oil compared to Mobil 1 that XOM is really not concerned ?

 

[Mokanic]

Perhaps,but you stull have the emerging players like Edge, and now Ultra. Though XOM still has the lion's share of the synthetic market their piece of the pie is shrinking to other players.

 

[SL8R]

Originally Posted By: Mokanic
Perhaps,but you stull have the emerging players like Edge, and now Ultra. Though XOM still has the lion's share of the synthetic market their piece of the pie is shrinking to other players.


Please provide a link to a reputable source that provides support for your statement.

Thanks.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: saaber1


"reb03, the Mobil 1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it."


Did he really mean 1000 miles, or 10,000 miles?

 

[Pablo]

I was surprised how much real world, rigorous testing Amsoil did on Toyota engines. They opened a LOT of oil filters after long OCI's.

To imply that an oil is inferior, or that the company doesn't do "Rigorous Field Testing" because they use a 4 ball test bench test as just one test is disingenuous and shady.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
I was surprised how much real world, rigorous testing Amsoil did on Toyota engines. They opened a LOT of oil filters after long OCI's.

To imply that an oil is inferior, or that the company doesn't do "Rigorous Field Testing" because they use a 4 ball test bench test as just one test is disingenuous and shady.


Agree. Probably XOM's way of jabbing back at the 4-ball non-sense.

 

[prax]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: saaber1


"reb03, the Mobil 1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it."


Did he really mean 1000 miles, or 10,000 miles?


Yes, 1000 miles.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/981179/

 

[demarpaint]

Thanks

Not saying much for Mobil 1 0w40 in that application.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Thanks

Not saying much for Mobil 1 0w40 in that application.


I think the issue is not much can be said for ANY oil in that application

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Thanks

Not saying much for Mobil 1 0w40 in that application.


I think the issue is not much can be said for ANY oil in that application

Seems that way.

 

[prax]

No. According to him, there IS an oil that works well those engines.

Quote:
RLI BIOSYN is the only oil I am seeing work well in DI RS4 or 2.0 Audi or the BMW bi turbo 3.0 I6 in the 335I. They both are killing every oil I used to recommend. I am not kidding and have no interest in promoting one oil over the other.

reb03, the Mobil 1 0w40 should not be run longer than 1000 miles to be safe.. Audi and BMW know they are having problems but are marketing tied to certain LARGE oil company that sponsors BITOG thus they cannot speak out about it.


Of course, this is an old post. Maybe some oils have caught up.

 

[demarpaint]

I wasn't impressed with what I read about RLI oils either. I did some reading in the used oil analysis forum. But that's JMO.