Resurface or not?

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The rear Akebono ProACT pads that I ordered for the '01 Acura TL have arrived, and I'm getting ready to do the rear brake job next Wednesday.

The car has a bit over 60k miles on it, and displays no brake pulsation problems. Provided that the rotor has no scoring and passes all of the runout, parallelism, and thickness tests, is it OK to simply wipe the rotor surface clean with brake cleaner, then proceed to install the new pads without resurfacing the brake rotor?

One side of me says if I do not resurface the rotors, even if I properly install the pads by lubing the proper areas (shim, pad ears, sliders) and do a proper pad burnishing, I'll still have noise problems. On the other hand, I'm afraid that if I do resurface the rotor, they will warp faster.

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RESURFACE THE ROTOR. This assures a problem free brake job. To me personally, doing a "pad slap" is something that you do with an old beater car, just to keep it going for a while.

Don't believe the hype about it warping faster by resurfacing it. If it's still within spec, there shouldn't be any problem.

Warping was never a problem on on the rear rotors of those cars, it's always the fronts that warp. Inevitably warped front rotors happen in almost all of the 99-03 TL's. Why? My personal belief is that it was an engineering oversight, the front rotors don't get enough airflow and get too hot and tend to warp. Anyway, I digress.

Cut the rotors and leave the "pad slaps" to shade tree mechanics and people who work at Bob's Backwoods Auto Service.
 
I wouldn't worry about resurfacing the rears unless they look like they need it, like scoring or glazing. Saves a lot of trouble not to bother. I've never thought of my cars as beaters, and I've never resurfaced. No vibrations, no resurface. (New rotors when warped, yes. A warp comes back in 15k after resurfacing a warped rotor, in my experience with a 2001 CL. And a new Acura OEM rotor warps in 30k.)
 
My brilliant dad did a pad slap on the front of the dodge, and now it vibrates when you use the brakes. I told him they needed resurfaced or replaced.
 
I have had my share of brake vibration issues over the years. I have serviced my own vehicles and the advice I would offer is this: If everything is smooth when you brake, then you may be all right with a "pad slap". If you feel any vibration at all...even the slightest hint, then I would recommend that you have your rotors turned. I would further recommend that you have this done by a reputable mechanic or service facility. I have had mixed results with auto parts stores that turn them for you. With brakes you always want to get it right. Having your rotors serviced by a professional mechanic is probably less then $100 a set. I had the rears on my vehicle done a couple of weeks ago for $72.00. Just left it with them and picked it up a few hours later. For whatever it is worth...hope that helps.
 
IMO, routine rotor resurfacing can be swapped for routine pad swapping. For anyone who waits until they need pads ..fine. You're asking to resurface by your maintenance schedule. Do you wait until there's a symptom showing itself
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I've done this with every car I've ever owned ...most have been from new. This is a carry over from when rotors were not as cheap as they are now (most models). I never let them get to the point where they ever needed cutting.

Now if I was a professional ...working on someone else's car ..with an unknown driving profile ..and an unknown level of "common sense" ..absolutely. I'd be resurfacing the rotors for MY peace of mind.

As was mentioned, there are some vehicles out there that have undersized or under vented rotors. There's not much you can do about that except cut and replace as needed.

Many would look at, as it appears to be called, the "pad slap" as being cheap. Those comments are surely by those who have wallets thick enough that brake service is less than their take out bill for the week. They never think that it's just one more "balance of efficiency" of time for the given yield in performance (call it lazy, if you will). If they've never routinely done "pad slaps" in a timely manner, they really can't comment on its viability. Again, their experience may be tainted by a poor rotor design ...or driving like they're living every day in "Fast and Furious" to some degree.

So, imo, the vast majority of drivers ..in the vast majority of vehicles, can avail themselves of the "pad slap" if they're of the mind set that they're going to treat it like any other maintenance item and not allow the conditions to degrade to requiring replacement.

It's not for everyone.
 
Resurfacing Rear non-vented rotors is asking for trouble. The term "pad slap" to me is when a guys takes old pads off their car and puts new ones on without greasing up the sliding pins. That is what makes a "pad slap" so bad. I am a strongly against cutting of rotors. I have cut rotors for customers and seen the results. A waste of time and money IMO. I would put the bads on and grease up the pins and you will be fine. Also I am not sure but do those cars have composite rotors in the rear? You cannot cut composite rotors.
 
Good luck getting agreement on this issue. From what I've read, not only is it questionable to resurface today's rotors, but it takes a great technician and excellent equipment to get a quality resurface job. I know GM issued a TSB advising against routine rotor resurfacing as part of a brake job. Seems like scuff sanding for a non-directional surface followed by a detergent wash would be a good idea if you choose not to resurface. Here's a good excerpt from this web page:

http://www.americasprideonline.com/brake-lathes/brake-service-articles.shtml



To cut or not to cut

By now it should be easy to determine if the rotor requires replacement or if resurfacing is necessary to bring the rotor within specifications. But what if all measurements were within specification, the friction surface is smooth and the vehicle had no brake problems other than worn linings? Should the rotor still be resurfaced? Unlike the old days, today the prevailing wisdom is "no" for several reasons.

Resurfacing the rotor unnecessarily removes material and makes the rotor thinner, lessening its ability to absorb and dissipate heat and shortening the rotor's useable lifespan. Improper machining also can create problems. For instance, if a non-integral rotor is not setup properly on a bench lathe, an excessive lateral runout condition that did not previously exist can be created when it is reinstalled on the hub. Improper resurfacing also can create a friction surface that is too rough, causing brake noise, premature pad wear and a hard pedal condition.

Many of the OEMs have issued bulletins in the last few years providing guidelines for brake rotor servicing. In these bulletins, they've indicated that brake rotors should not be resurfaced during routine brake pad replacement. Most also recommend that new rotors not be resurfaced.

Finally, if the rotor's surface condition is acceptable and all dimensions except runout were within specification, the technician should try changing the position of the rotor on the hub and rechecking the runout. A change in position may bring runout within allowances.

If inspection and measurement determined that resurfacing is necessary, there are two alternatives: the traditional bench lathe or an on-car brake lathe. As stated previously, a traditional bench lathe is fine for resurfacing rotors with integral hubs and tapered roller bearings. However, a bench lathe requires more effort for turning non-integral rotors or excessive lateral runout can be created. After measuring runout with the rotor on the hub, the runout also must be measured with the dial indicator when the rotor is mounted on the lathe. If the runout isn't in the same place and/or the same amount, the rotor should be shimmed until the runout is duplicated.

Another way to use a bench lathe and maintain lateral runout within specifications is to use tapered shims. After the rotor is resurfaced, it is remounted on the hub, and runout is checked with a dial indicator. If runout is excessive, the high spot is marked and the rotor is removed. The tapered shim is then installed on the hub with the thickest part opposite the high spot. When the rotor is reinstalled, runout should be within specification.

When using a bench lathe to resurface composite rotors, special adapters must be used to support the steel center section, or the rotor can flex and cause runout and surface finish problems. Also, if an aftermarket cast replacement rotor is used to replace a composite rotor, the rotors on both sides of the vehicle should be replaced, regardless of the other rotor's condition.

For a bench lathe with a fixed 150-rpm spindle speed, a rough cut of 0.005 inches can be made at 0.006 to 0.010 inches cross feed per revolution. A finish cut of 0.002 inches should be made at no more than 0.002 inches cross feed per revolution.

On-car brake lathes fall into two categories--caliper-mounted lathes and hub-mounted lathes. Both types are ideal for resurfacing rotors on vehicles where the rotor is difficult to remove.

Caliper-mounted lathes were the first type of on-car lathes widely available. They are two-piece units with one part rotating the rotor and the other part being the cutting mechanism, which is attached to the steering knuckle. They usually require many adapters due to the variety of steering knuckle designs, and they can be time-consuming to set up.

Hub-mounted lathes combine the rotor drive device and cutting mechanism in a single unit. These lathes machine the rotor so that it is perpendicular to the wheel's axis of rotation, thereby minimizing runout. Most require only five or six adapters to allow hub attachment on most cars and light trucks. The latest design hub-mounted lathes can resurface a rotor in approximately 10 minutes, from the time the machine is attached, to the finished rotor. Some offer automatic runout compensation, which further simplifies the setup process.

Regardless of the type of lathe that is used, the finished surface of the rotor must be very smooth: between 20 and 70 micro-inches. After the rotor has been machined, the friction surface should be sanded with 120- to 150-grit sandpaper, mounted on a sanding block, while the rotor turns on the lathe. A non-directional finish should be applied using the sandpaper, until the machined finish that was created by the cutting bit begins to disappear, about one minute per side.
 
Serious: Thanks for that, doitmyself.


Tongue in cheek: I'm glad that they've finally reached my level of enlightenment. It's about time.
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My shop does not resurface, nor do I. You won't have a problem. New rotors at AZ cost little more than the machining.
 
Majority of the time rotors can be successfully machined. I dont know what people charge typically to resurface but its significantly cheaper than buying a new set of rotors.

Theres a 50/50 spread on when I replace or machine rotors at my shop. Any European car I will never machine a rotor due to most aggressive nature of their brake systems. I typically find the rotor to be out of spec when the pads wear on European makes.

People dont realize that on occasion cars with sticky slider can wear the rotor in an angle. So runout can be decent but depending where you locate your dial indicator the inner portion of the rotor surface will be a good .005 (one side of the rotor) or more thicker than the outer surface area of the rotor.

Cast 1 piece non vented will machine with decent success. Rust and corrosion will also determine if you have a good "cut" since the hat can have imperfections with bumpy rust contacting the adapters to the lathe. I will use my discretion when to wire wheel the outer and inner portions of the hat of the rotor.

People can get very technical about machining a rotor. Buy a new one then. Dont be suprised when you have bad runout on a new set of rotors straight out of the box. USA/Canadian made or offshore you'll get runout from handling.

The likelihood you'll feel brake shimmy on rear disk brakes is slim IMO. If you do a brake job by slapping pads in the rear you'll typically be fine. Call it ghetto. My biggest concern is rotor thickness. On very rare occasions I'll slap in pads in the rear for a customer (as per request) but usually I'll either machine or put in new rotors.

Dont sweat it. If you feel brake shimmy in the rear you'll have to do the job twice or maybe not. Professionally speaking do it right the first time.
 
just put on new rear pads. youwill not feel vibrations from the rear even if hey would arise, which is very unlikely. the akebono pads are a good choice.
 
On customer's vehicles, I always re-surface unless I'm specifically instructed otherwise. It yeilds more consistent results, less subsequent bittching... and it ain't MY money.

On my own vehicles, I resurface if there's any visible problem, or if there's even a hint of brake pulsation. Otherwise, I just do a pad-slap, clean up the slides, and give it not a second thought. No elaborate break-in procedures... I just drive normally. Never had a problem thusfar.
 
Scuff the surface with 100 grit or so sandpaper - do it evenly.
Clean everything well!
If the rotor is not warped, don't cut it. There is NO advantage to cutting it.
 
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I've done this with every car I've ever owned ...most have been from new. This is a carry over from when rotors were not as cheap as they are now (most models). I never let them get to the point where they ever needed cutting.





The reason rotors are much cheaper nowadays than they were is because they have less machineable surface. I would really suggest, as someone else mentioned, if you were to get them resurfaced, make sure you do so by someone who knows what they are doing and ensures they are within specs. Old rotors had lots of machineable surface to use but they were more expensive and a lot heavier. You will find now that rotors are more susceptible to warping due to the fact that they are much smaller and the practices that a lot of auto parts stores use of keeping the rotors stores on their end instead of keeping them flat, which is one of the preventative storage methods for rotors.

If you properly clean everything and lubricate your brake parts and your rotors do not have scoring, you should not have any problem with just changing your REAR brake pads.
 
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