I'd say somewhat abrassive so increases wear
Redline Engine Break-In Additive
- Thread starter Taylor
- Start date
- Status
This is not a break in oil, but a break in oil additive. You don't use the whole bottle at once, correct?
Looks like half a bottle treats 6 quarts. From the Red Line website
Engine Break-In Additive
Red Line’s new Engine Oil Break-In Additive (Part #81403, MSRP $12.95) provides conventional motor oils with antiwear additives like zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) necessary to protect against camshaft and valvetrain damage on break-in.
This is especially important in flat-tappet engines where bigger camshafts grinds and higher valve spring pressures are now popular. This additive is designed to allow pistons rings to seat properly, while allowing other engines components to avoid excessive wear.
A 16oz bottle treats up to 12 quarts of motor oil, so in many cases one bottle can serve two different engines. This product can also be used in conventional and synthetic oils during regular operation, providing an extra package of protection otherwise not found in most motor oils.
Engine Break-In Additive
Red Line’s new Engine Oil Break-In Additive (Part #81403, MSRP $12.95) provides conventional motor oils with antiwear additives like zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) necessary to protect against camshaft and valvetrain damage on break-in.
This is especially important in flat-tappet engines where bigger camshafts grinds and higher valve spring pressures are now popular. This additive is designed to allow pistons rings to seat properly, while allowing other engines components to avoid excessive wear.
A 16oz bottle treats up to 12 quarts of motor oil, so in many cases one bottle can serve two different engines. This product can also be used in conventional and synthetic oils during regular operation, providing an extra package of protection otherwise not found in most motor oils.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Why do the oil companies put Ca in oil for - no big secret. Its mainly a detergent, its a solid. You could buy Calcium Carbonate in laboratory grade and add to oil yourself. Thats all they are doing.
Farmers have been using baking soda since the turn of the century.
It rushes break in and cleans in the process.
wjdell,
You need to read this post about additive chemistry.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530321#Post530321
I only wish it were that simple.
Why do the oil companies put Ca in oil for - no big secret. Its mainly a detergent, its a solid. You could buy Calcium Carbonate in laboratory grade and add to oil yourself. Thats all they are doing.
Farmers have been using baking soda since the turn of the century.
It rushes break in and cleans in the process.
wjdell,
You need to read this post about additive chemistry.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530321#Post530321
I only wish it were that simple.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
I'd say somewhat abrassive so increases wear
The calcium is a nano-particle colloidal emulsion and the other additives are soluble zddp ester and MoDTC in a 30 weight oil.
I see no insolubles.
I do find it odd that the King of Moly has only added a minute amount, or the analytical instrumentation couldn't see it for all the calcium and zddp.
I'd say somewhat abrassive so increases wear
The calcium is a nano-particle colloidal emulsion and the other additives are soluble zddp ester and MoDTC in a 30 weight oil.
I see no insolubles.
I do find it odd that the King of Moly has only added a minute amount, or the analytical instrumentation couldn't see it for all the calcium and zddp.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
I'd say somewhat abrassive so increases wear
I do find it odd that the King of Moly has only added a minute amount, or the analytical instrumentation couldn't see it for all the calcium and zddp.
is alot of moly ok during break in? I would have thought not.
Quote:
I'd say somewhat abrassive so increases wear
I do find it odd that the King of Moly has only added a minute amount, or the analytical instrumentation couldn't see it for all the calcium and zddp.
is alot of moly ok during break in? I would have thought not.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
So in your opinion do you believe this Red Line product would enhance break in - or do nothing.
Too much moly and it wouldn't run-in.
It should definately reduce excessive wear, but I wouldn't use a whole bottle in 5 quarts; just add enough to get the ZDDP up to about 0.15%.
As soon as oil consumption drops on the rebuilt, change the oil.
So in your opinion do you believe this Red Line product would enhance break in - or do nothing.
Too much moly and it wouldn't run-in.
It should definately reduce excessive wear, but I wouldn't use a whole bottle in 5 quarts; just add enough to get the ZDDP up to about 0.15%.
As soon as oil consumption drops on the rebuilt, change the oil.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
wjdell,
You need to read this post about additive chemistry.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530321#Post530321
I only wish it were that simple.
I thought the K, Ca, and Na were used (sacrificially) because they had higher activity than the Mg, Al, Zn, Fe, Ni, Sn, and Pb. and would react with the Clorates, Nitrates and Sulfates in the acids formed during combustion.
wjdell,
You need to read this post about additive chemistry.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=530321#Post530321
I only wish it were that simple.
I thought the K, Ca, and Na were used (sacrificially) because they had higher activity than the Mg, Al, Zn, Fe, Ni, Sn, and Pb. and would react with the Clorates, Nitrates and Sulfates in the acids formed during combustion.
Is there any reason you couldn't use this product to beef up their 0w10 racing oil to make it streetable?
it will boost some levels but it will also thicken your oil so use sparingly. What levels are you looking to boost, if zddp may I reccomend crane cams superlube. Not exactly sure what your trying to accomplish, nor do I know anything about the oil you mentioned....
At 10.5 cSt 100C viscosity, the thickening effect will be negligible. 10.5 is a typical viscosity for a 30 weight oil.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Looks like half a bottle treats 6 quarts. From the Red Line website
Engine Break-In Additive
Red Line’s new Engine Oil Break-In Additive (Part #81403, MSRP $12.95) provides conventional motor oils with antiwear additives like zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) necessary to protect against camshaft and valvetrain damage on break-in.
This is especially important in flat-tappet engines where bigger camshafts grinds and higher valve spring pressures are now popular. This additive is designed to allow pistons rings to seat properly, while allowing other engines components to avoid excessive wear.
A 16oz bottle treats up to 12 quarts of motor oil, so in many cases one bottle can serve two different engines. This product can also be used in conventional and synthetic oils during regular operation, providing an extra package of protection otherwise not found in most motor oils.
Otherwise not found in their 10 weight racing oil?
Looks like half a bottle treats 6 quarts. From the Red Line website
Engine Break-In Additive
Red Line’s new Engine Oil Break-In Additive (Part #81403, MSRP $12.95) provides conventional motor oils with antiwear additives like zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) necessary to protect against camshaft and valvetrain damage on break-in.
This is especially important in flat-tappet engines where bigger camshafts grinds and higher valve spring pressures are now popular. This additive is designed to allow pistons rings to seat properly, while allowing other engines components to avoid excessive wear.
A 16oz bottle treats up to 12 quarts of motor oil, so in many cases one bottle can serve two different engines. This product can also be used in conventional and synthetic oils during regular operation, providing an extra package of protection otherwise not found in most motor oils.
Otherwise not found in their 10 weight racing oil?
Last edited:
Piston rings seat just fine with high ZDDP levels. In fact their is an SAE Paper done by Lubrizol and Toyota on the effects of various AW additives for break in. Some parts prefer ZDDP and other's prefer moly!
I doubt many people on this board have every had to run triple valve springs and ran cams with monster cam lope knose loading! You need all the help you can get during the first 20 minutes of run in. In the past I used to use Molly EP grease but this would plug the oil filter up so you had to change out the oil in 20 minutes and the filter after initial run in. Redline make an assembly lube and this additive for break in and neither of them will plug up the filter as their is no solids in either product.
People running old school detroit iron have been having all kinds of camshaft failures and lifter failures due to SM,GF3 oils lack of ZDDP and Phos which is the P in ZDDP.
They are not selling this stuff for you to add to your engine every oil change it has a very real purpose!
On top of that not every single modern engine has roller rockers and roller lifters.
Their are commercial piston coating ranging from tin "old School", to molly,graphite and ZDDP all of these are in use on pistons and other parts both at the OEM level and the after market. If I recall correctly from the paper wrist pins and followers preferred molly and rings and cams preferred ZDDP. They used isotopes in each additive then inspected the parts and measured the levels of radioactive isotopes on the various parts to see which AW/EP additive had the greatest uptake on each type of part.
I doubt many people on this board have every had to run triple valve springs and ran cams with monster cam lope knose loading! You need all the help you can get during the first 20 minutes of run in. In the past I used to use Molly EP grease but this would plug the oil filter up so you had to change out the oil in 20 minutes and the filter after initial run in. Redline make an assembly lube and this additive for break in and neither of them will plug up the filter as their is no solids in either product.
People running old school detroit iron have been having all kinds of camshaft failures and lifter failures due to SM,GF3 oils lack of ZDDP and Phos which is the P in ZDDP.
They are not selling this stuff for you to add to your engine every oil change it has a very real purpose!
On top of that not every single modern engine has roller rockers and roller lifters.
Their are commercial piston coating ranging from tin "old School", to molly,graphite and ZDDP all of these are in use on pistons and other parts both at the OEM level and the after market. If I recall correctly from the paper wrist pins and followers preferred molly and rings and cams preferred ZDDP. They used isotopes in each additive then inspected the parts and measured the levels of radioactive isotopes on the various parts to see which AW/EP additive had the greatest uptake on each type of part.
Red Line also said you can add up to 1 ounce/qt of their Break In add to any oil to boost the ZDDP levels. You can run it the full OCI w/o issue. That is if you want to boost ZDDP levels in the first place. Some guys with older cars want that extra shot as an added measure against cam wear. Whether or not it is needed is always a hot topic.
- Status
