Redline D4 ATF states GL-4 Protection. Amsoil?

[hooligan24]

Dave@redline told me the C+ATF also protects like a GL-4, even though it does not say so on the site. Do you think they say it is GL-4 like, for people that have manual transaxles that require ATF's?

If them saying GL-4 level of protection is in their ATFs and is only advertising, it worked. I use redline ATF's in my transaxles because they mention the GL4 level of protection.

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
I have an idea , someone might want to call redline and get an answer for the GL-4 claim. I'm sure they didn't just pull it out of nowhere. The D4 may very well have a GL-4 level of gear protection. Or we could continue to be internet experts.....


Even you missed my point. There is a BIG difference between An ATF with "GL-4 level of gear protection" and using an ATF with "GL-4 level of gear protection" in a gear oil application!!!!

Hi Pablo:
i dont think i miss your point.... because i have no idea of the differences.. i am here to learn and please explain to me. thanks!

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: AzFireGuy79
I have an idea , someone might want to call redline and get an answer for the GL-4 claim. I'm sure they didn't just pull it out of nowhere. The D4 may very well have a GL-4 level of gear protection. Or we could continue to be internet experts.....

i am still waiting for the response from RL.
i keep asking Amsoil and they stop responding to me after 3rd email. maybe they think i am a troll or something, or they are just busy getting the fact to me. they said no way their atf and honda Z1 are GL-4 certified.

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
This logic is very, very wrong. Just because Redline says their ATF will meet the GL-4 requirements, do not interpret this to mean you can use it in ANY application requiring GL-4. Ask Redline if you think I'm trying to just make sales.


I think Redline makes excellent products, but I have never seen any of their data to back up the claim that their or anyone else's ATF offers the same protection as a GL-4 MTF or gear lube.

The Anti-wear additive package and film strength in a GL-4 has always been much more robust than any ATF fluid.

Dear Molakule
i agree; i send them a question and now i am still waiting for RL's response to my GL-4 question. as far as i can see, RL is the only one that mention GL-4 in their universal ATF offering..
i know you (and Mr Dyson)have much more in-depth knowledge on Honda Z1. ..do you think if Honda Z1's additive is aiming GL-4 protection?
thanks!

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Yes it does appear I didnt see what you were trying to say. I agree with your statement obviously, now actually fully reading it. My bad!

 

[onion]

A spec that Amsoil ATF doesn't 'meet or exceed'??

Say it ain't so!

 

[unDummy]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
[/quote]

This logic is very, very wrong. Just because Redline says their ATF will meet the GL-4 requirements, do not interpret this to mean you can use it in ANY application requiring GL-4. Ask Redline if you think I'm trying to just make sales.


What logic? I never said in ANY application requiring GL4. Most components have 'weight requirements'.

But, in a differential or transfer case, or any component requiring ATF, I'd rather have one that is claimed GL4 and synthetic over something that is not.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: unDummy

What logic? I never said in ANY application requiring GL4. Most components have 'weight requirements'.

But, in a differential or transfer case, or any component requiring ATF, I'd rather have one that is claimed GL4 and synthetic over something that is not.


I was speaking to gogozy, not you. Unless I was wrong he was inferring that he could use D4 in his GL4 apps.

I don't disagree necessarily with what you write.

Amsoil won't claim GL4 for their ATF, because, well it just isn't right and probably confusing as heck for the public at large.

 

[DaddyBlogger]

Originally Posted By: DaddyBlogger
I received an official technical support response from Amsoil regarding my question above. Interesting what they state about the EP additive which is in Redline D4 ATF.

"Automatic Transmission Fluid does not benefit from the EP additive which qualifies it to meet GL-4 specifications. In fact it may be harmful. AMSOIL Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is recommended to replace Honda ATF-Z1 fluid.

Honda ATF-Z1 Automatic Transmission Fluid, Part no.
08200-9001 or equivalent

Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance."

I thought that was a strong statement about the differences between the two. It must not be that big of an issue having the EP additive though because so many swear by the Redline D4 ATF. Based on Amsoil's response I think I will stick with the Amsoil Uni ATF.



This response from Amsoil sealed the deal in my eyes...I will continue to use the Amsoil ATF in light of this and also because of being pleased with it so far.

 

[Whitewolf]

It's easy to claim GL-4 since the tests are not available nor have they been for a number of years. In reality a decent ATF would be expected to meet GL-4 standard but such a claim can neither be proved or disproved.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: DaddyBlogger
Originally Posted By: DaddyBlogger
I received an official technical support response from Amsoil regarding my question above. Interesting what they state about the EP additive which is in Redline D4 ATF.

"Automatic Transmission Fluid does not benefit from the EP additive which qualifies it to meet GL-4 specifications. In fact it may be harmful. AMSOIL Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) is recommended to replace Honda ATF-Z1 fluid.

Honda ATF-Z1 Automatic Transmission Fluid, Part no.
08200-9001 or equivalent

Thank you for this opportunity to respond to your question(s). As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance."

I thought that was a strong statement about the differences between the two. It must not be that big of an issue having the EP additive though because so many swear by the Redline D4 ATF. Based on Amsoil's response I think I will stick with the Amsoil Uni ATF.



This response from Amsoil sealed the deal in my eyes...I will continue to use the Amsoil ATF in light of this and also because of being pleased with it so far.


I'm not sure why this response sealed any deals, the comment regarding GL-4 was pure speculation. There's nothing out of line in this D4 VOA, no extreme levels of EP additives:

I use and will continue to use D4 without reservation, it is an excellent ATF and among the best available anywhere for it's intended applications. I haven't seen an ATF anywhere that matches its physical specs across the board, Amsoil included.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
no extreme levels of EP additives


I think you misunderstood Amsoil's response.

You shouldn't see EP additives in an ATF.

Transmission and differential fluids are totally different in two main areas:

1. Fluid thickness and composition
2. Additive mix

In AT transmission fluids, you want mostly AW additives such as a special phosphorous agent and some boron, with just enough viacosity to give the required oil film protection.

GL-5 is a level of protection for gearing based on fluid viscosity for hydrodynamic film thickness, and the additive package is an Extreme Pressure system (based on a different chemistry) than AW additives for the boundary lubrication. Most of these EP additives are sulfur-phosphorous types.

Many GL-4 lubricants have no less than a 9.3 cSt viscosity and one half to 60% of the GL-5 EP additive package.

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
no extreme levels of EP additives


I think you misunderstood Amsoil's response.

You shouldn't see EP additives in an ATF.

Transmission and differential fluids are totally different in two main areas:

1. Fluid thickness and composition
2. Additive mix

In AT transmission fluids, you want mostly AW additives such as a special phosphorous agent and some boron, with just enough viacosity to give the required oil film protection.

GL-5 is a level of protection for gearing based on fluid viscosity for hydrodynamic film thickness, and the additive package is an Extreme Pressure system (based on a different chemistry) than AW additives for the boundary lubrication. Most of these EP additives are sulfur-phosphorous types.

Many GL-4 lubricants have no less than a 9.3 cSt viscosity and one half to 60% of the GL-5 EP additive package.


thanks for details, now i have a better picture.

no wonder Amsoil ATF does not claim GL-4, and RL not responding.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

Call them and ask for Dave. They deal with many race teams and might be back logged with emails. Their customer service is top notch.

 

[gogozy]

thanks! just got a message from David of Redline this morning.
"Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, the D4ATF satisfies the GL-4 protection levels as shown by FZG 12 stage pass at 150°C.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil"

i return, i ask for data...

 

[DaddyBlogger]

[/quote]
I'm not sure why this response sealed any deals, the comment regarding GL-4 was pure speculation. There's nothing out of line in this D4 VOA, no extreme levels of EP additives:

I use and will continue to use D4 without reservation, it is an excellent ATF and among the best available anywhere for it's intended applications. I haven't seen an ATF anywhere that matches its physical specs across the board, Amsoil included. [/quote]

Ben99GT,

Referring to your last sentence and I am in no way being sarcastic...but how is Redline D4 better than the Amsoil ATF? Seriously...help me understand this. Thanks.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: DaddyBlogger

Ben99GT,

Referring to your last sentence and I am in no way being sarcastic...but how is Redline D4 better than the Amsoil ATF? Seriously...help me understand this. Thanks.


Red Line ATF has the better specs pretty much across the board with the exception of flash point in the D4 / ATF comparison. Brookfield viscosity shows a HUGE advantage for the Red Line ATFs.

Red Line D4 ATF / Amsoil Synthetic Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)

Vis @ 100°C, cSt: 7.5 / 7.6
Vis @ 40°C, cSt: 34 / 38.9
Viscosity Index: 198 / 168
Pour Point, °C (°F): -60 (-76) / -53 (-63)
Flash Point, °C (°F): 225 (437) / 234 (453)
Brookfield Vis @ -40°C, cP: 5200 / 9800

Red Line D6 ATF / Amsoil Synthetic Fuel Efficient Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATL)

Vis @ 100°C, cSt: 6.4 / 6.0
Vis @ 40°C, cSt: 30.7 / 29.8
Viscosity Index: 166 / 153
Pour Point, °C (°F): -60 (-76) / -53 (-63)
Flash Point, °C (°F): 249 (480) / 244 (471)
Brookfield Vis @ -40°C, cP: 4500 / 9050

 

[DaddyBlogger]

Ben99GT,

Thanks for putting them side-by-side. Sorry for being ignorant but I am not sure what the advantage is to having a lower Brookfield Viscosity which Redline D4 has based on the information you provided. I did a search and got lost in 20+ posts of forum members citing stats, etc but could not locate in common terms what a lower BV # means to my vehicle. Thanks for your info and perhaps clarifying this for me.

 

[unDummy]

In a colder climate, it'll flow better and you won't lose as much MPG. Not an issue unless you're an ice road trucker.

0°c would be interesting for both and would have more meaning for most winter climates. -40°c is something only SantaClaus's mechanic worries about.

Over the past 2 decades, I've pumped more than 100's of gallons of both Amsoil and Redline products and have seen no failures with either. IMHO, its still a coin toss among the boutique suppliers. We call that psychological brand preference.

For more comparison:
RoyalPurple compares well to D4 and ATF, and looks like a blend or 1/2way point between Redline and Amsoil:
7.5cst at 100c
35cst at 40c
7150 at -40c
VI = 180
Flash =440f
Pour
Since RP doesn't have a D6/ATL competive product, we'll use Valvoline Maxlife:
6.11 at 100c
28.18 at 40c
8400 at -40c
VI at 173
Pour -51c
Flash 202c(~396f)

I'm not worried about the GL4 part. If they determined that the FZG test is equivalent to or comparable to GL testing, so be it. I bet Amsoil would do just as well.

 

[DaddyBlogger]

Thanks for your help in understanding this.