Redline D4 16K Accord 4cyl-03

[spiderbypass]

ATF used AMSOIL ATF REDLINE D-4 ATF
Sample Date Aug 17, 2007 June 9 2008
Miles on oil 20K 16K
Miles on car 83K 99K
Make-up oil None None
Lab: Blackstone Polaris
Wear Metals:
Iron: 34 19
Copper: 5 3
Tin: 0 0
Lead: 0 2
Chromium: 0 0
Nickel: 0 0
Aluminum: 31 17
Titanium: 0 0
Silver: 0 0
Moly 0 0
Maganese 0 0
Boron 102 135
Silicon 7 0
Sodium 10 7
Potassium 0 0
Calcium 264 115
Magnesium 28 5
Phosphorous 347 357
Zinc 52 14
Barium 2 0
Visc 5.5 6.4
Flash >370 NA-did not provide
TAN NA 2.18

Did complete flush and fill with both fluids. I ran Amsoil ATF before the Amsoil ATF report. I put 6 ounces of Auto RX before Redline report. I changed out early cause I like to waste money. I wanted to install magnefine filter and try a run with Redline D6. The Honda Service Dept took sample, flushed Redline D4, and installed Magnefine Transmission filter for no extra charge from return line to transmission. I ordered a new inline filter from Honda, which I will ask them to put in next week. The Honda Service Guy in Parkville MD used to sell Amsoil, and is cool about putting my own fluid in for me. I should have run Redline out longer to get a more fair comparison since it is 4K less miles than Amsoil, but am impulsive.

 

[spiderbypass]

The Amsoil sample was the older formulation, or at least the older bottle. It did not have the D-6 specification on it.

 

[Tempest]

TAN seems high. Maybe the esters?

 

[spiderbypass]

I apologize for not responding quickly. What is a "normal" TAN number for used transmission fluid?

 

[Tempest]

Depends on the formulation but usually under 1. Amsoil seems to run around 1.5.

 

[spiderbypass]

I found this quote on Patents Storm. The TAN was indeed high, although the car shifted nicely with the Redline D4,and the wear metals seemed relatively low for a Honda transmission. I may call Dave at Redline to ascertain whether Redline starts with a higher TAN because of esters possibly. Dabe did say Redline starts with about 350 ppm of calcium and that did drop about 2/3rds. "Automatic transmission fluids exhibit a finite useful life due to oxidative
degradation of the base oil and additive package. One common metric for assessing
the general quality of current formulation type transmission oil is to measure
the extent of bulk fluid oxidation as reflected in an increase in the total acid
number (delta TAN) of the fluid via ASTM D664. Based upon historical data correlating
to increased shudder tendency and loss of frictional performance, ATFs exhibiting
an increase in TAN of 2.5 mg KOH/g are considered to be at the end of their useful
life. The rate of bulk oxidation differs between oils and is a function of time
at temperature in the presence of an oxidizing environment, the base oil chemistry,
and the additive package formulation. In addition to loss of performance through
bulk oxidation of the base oil, friction modifiers, present in minute concentrations,
can also oxidize in the bulk fluid or locally at clutch interfaces without contributing
appreciably to an increase in delta TAN."

 

[MolaKule]

Starting TAN and TBN numbers for most PCMO esters run around run around 0.25 to 0.5.

 

[spiderbypass]

I called Dave at Redline and inquired about the baseline TAN number in the Redline D4. He said the baseline TAN number of Redline D4 is 1.29.

 

[Ibrahim]

so which is better spyderbypass?
Amsoil ATF or Red Line D4...in your experience as you have done the analysis as well?

 

[MolaKule]

I too am curious how each shifted.

A used oil TAN of 2.19 with a starting TAN of 1.29 I wouldn't consider a big deal, since you're dealing with percentage deltas for two different analyses.

 

[Ibrahim]

any one!

 

[postjeeprcr]

I think Red Line D4 will work fine for your application

 

[AzFireGuy79]

I am curious how it will shift with D6?? I would think that the D4 would be a better fit. But if it turns out the D6 shifts better that would be cool. Im running D4 in my camry and was curious about changing it to D6 just to see if it likes the lighter viscosity. Let us know how it goes!

 

[DeeAgeaux]

So they are about the same?

 

[unDummy]

Lighter viscosity for better MPG and for better cold weather performance. I don't thing that Az needs a thinner ATF.

IMO, yes they are about the same.

Its usually a coin toss between the boutique ATFs.