Redline and Engine Seals

[toyota62]

Castrol magnatec uses ester.Ken4 had bad experience with ester base engine oil.Developed few oil leaks.
Personally I like PAO base engine oil's like mobil1 and Fuchs.If I compared motul 300v 5w-30 and mobil1 0w-40, Mobil1 0w-40 gave me far better acceleration,fuel economy,less initial start up noise than motul 300v 5w-30.The only advantage I got from motul 300v was less engine noise when hot at idle.

[ March 23, 2006, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: toyota62 ]

 

[buster]

JAG, I believe everything you said but my take on it is that you had defective seals or seals not compatible with RL for whatever reason. I would not conclude based on one car that Ester based oils are bad for engine seals.

Esters will find any openning then can get too. The fact that no one else on BITOG I can think has ever had this kind of problem leads me to think that it was your car for whatever reason. Could be the type of engine seal but if so, why havn't any other Subaru owners reported this problem?

 

[uconn1150]

Well, I guess it's kinda hit or miss. I still don't know which way to go. Being patient with A-Rx has finally paid off. No smoke for 2 days in a row! I guess I'll just wuss out and stick with Delvac1300s, although I have 5qts of RL on the way.

 

[buster]

Redline contains a small amount of PAO. Dave has stated that the PRIMARY basestock in RL is POE.

Regarding seal issues, JAG, I think in our case you had a mechanical issue that RL exposed. RL will clean and expose poor seals or seals in poor conditions.

Molekule could provide some good info about this.

 

[uconn1150]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
Redline contains a small amount of PAO. Dave has stated that the PRIMARY basestock in RL is POE.

Regarding seal issues, JAG, I think in our case you had a mechanical issue that RL exposed. RL will clean and expose poor seals or seals in poor conditions.

Molekule could provide some good info about this.

---

What exactly constitutes a "poor" seal? For example, if use of A-Rx has cleaned/conditioned the seals, and STOPPED the burning/leakage, will Redline cause leaking?

 

[BrianWC]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
Redline contains a small amount of PAO. Dave has stated that the PRIMARY basestock in RL is POE.

Regarding seal issues, JAG, I think in our case you had a mechanical issue that RL exposed. RL will clean and expose poor seals or seals in poor conditions.

Molekule could provide some good info about this.

---

Well, this is the quote from the Redline webpage that made me wonder. After reading the first clause of the sentence, you could say they just mean that they use mainly esters..but the second gives the distinct impression of ONLY esters....

I'm just saying that's my take...

quote:

---

Rather than cutting costs by blending into polyalphaolefin base stock for its motor oil, Red Line Oil only uses superior poly ester-based products—resulting in lubricants that are extremely stable at high temperatures while providing superior film strength at lower viscosities where more power can be produced.

---

 

[JAG]

Buster, I should add that I started the Redline motor oil at 3000 miles (essentially new-broken in engine). Ran several 5000 mile intervals with same oil consumption (0.9 qts/1k miles). Changed to Valvoline Synpower 10W-30, consumption halved. Ran that for a while and later tried the Redline again - consumption doubled again. Got frustrated with pricey oil and just used Pennzoil mineral oil and consumption halved again.

I put the Redline gear oil in at around 20k miles. It never leaked before that but it leaked with the Redline. Switched to Valvoline Synthetic gear oil and leaking stopped.

So all of the seals were essentially in new condition. Even if they knicks in them (unlikely) that didn't pose a problem for the other oils. The explanation that Redline exposed mechanical issues isn't supported by the events/facts. I'd agree with that explanation if this happened on an old vehicle with old seals, which we know can happen even with common synthetics such as Mobil 1.

Somewhere I saw a website where a guy put seals in cups with different oils. There was a significant different in how much the dimensions of the seals changed with some of the oils. People in the oil/automaker industry are well aware of seal swelling effects...some automaker oil specs actually have a seal swell test with the seals they actually use (like MB, VW/Audi). Unfortunately, Redline isn't tested in this way.

 

[GMorg]

Oh, come on uconn1150, use the expensive stuff and then report back. If your experience is like JAG's, you can always switch back at the next change with no harm done.

 

[uconn1150]

LOL...I'm tempted. But I hated being a "smoker." I wonder if 3oz of A-Rx with the RedLine will keep the smoking away. People say esters are bad, but A-Rx is an ester. I dunno...so confused.

 

[BrianWC]

I finally ordered some RL myself. Now I can't decide to use it to spike dino or use it by itself.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[luvs2drive]

I just bought 10qts of the stuff for my Corolla! If I don't like it, if it burns off, or leaks in any way, I'll use the last 6qts to spike my next 6 Mobil 1 oil changes.

 

[uconn1150]

Ditto...so many options

 

[warrior pilot]

Just use GC. Its less expensive and it works! And don't forget this..... http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=51;t=000866

 

[GMorg]

BrianWC, my poorly educated opinion is to use RedLine straight. I've recently used it without much issue on a new vehicle. I have noticed a little weeping around the valve cover and oil pan, but not anything that concerns me. My position is that at least when used straight, you get the add mix that is appropriate for the RedLine base oil. I know that there are many assumptions built into that position. But, I think that if additive packages are optimized (IF), then adding RedLine to other oils is almost certainly not optimized.

 

[BrianWC]

IF is the big question, isn't it. I've seen people spike it on here no worries, but...I want the maximum clean....

 

[GMorg]

Are you making gumbo in the engine. "Cosmetic Cleaning!' I try to use neither of those words. Especially not together! Just consider the varnish a nice protective antioxidant coating.

Maybe, removing it would be bad...very, very, bad...

 

[BrianWC]

Nah, really. Do a search under redline here. Plenty have combined it w/ LC or dinos or both. I say cosmetic b/c everytime I've ever mentioned varnish I get the whole "It's cosmetic, why worry?" schtick. MolaKule just today told someone to take a wire brush to their varnish coat so I don't think it'd be that bad to want to remove the stuff.

 

[TheTanSedan]

How can varnish only be a "cosmetic" problem? It's a sign of heat, not of health. It has sure never "looked good" on any hydraulic lifters I've overhauled, it made them sticky and slow.

I'm on the third family vehicle to be changed over to REDLINE past 60,000 miles (after MolaSoak and ARX clean-ups).

First use of RL ends up darker than subsequent fills (7-9000 mile OFL). No leaks, no noises. Minor consumption on one (possible intake leak) and zero on others.

Just add FUEL POWER and LUBE CONTROL per directions or DYSON ANALYSIS.

(No reason to read BITOG ever again: that's the Cliff Notes version

 

[BrianWC]

Well, I've always thought the same but everytime I mention varnish, I'm told "Don't worry, varnish is only a cosmetic stain!" While yes, it does show up in places it may not really affect, it's continuing, persisting presence makes me wonder where else it is....

 

[LarryL]

I'll add my two cents. My wife's 96 850 Volvo turbo as almost 155k with RL 5w-30 and no leaks, and just a little bit of movement on the dipstick over 5k miles, that I would guess is 4 to 6 ounces of consumption. Its 350 or so miles a week is some of the worst traffic in San Diego, north and south on Hwy 15 at rush hour. Commute times for 45 miles one way, vary from 35-40 minutes to 2+ hours. RL appears to be doing its job. I know there are other oils that could do this commute, too, but RL isn't causing any problems. I'll be doing a uoa in a few weeks. And there are no oil drops on the garage floor.