Redline 5w-30 or 5w-40 to reduce wear in e46 with 310k miles

[mckenzie333]

With your maintenance I wouldn't be surprised if it went well beyond 400,000!

In typical BMW fashion, the engines are extremely well made, just leaky and have a few weak points in the cooling system. I've never had an engine or transmission issue in any of my BMWs and I beat the heck out of them. (Everything else though, that's a different story...)

Thanks again for those words of encouragement- the in line 6 classic BMW engines have been - almost as much as my golden retrievers - one of the nicest things in my lifetime

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Is there anything which is making you think you need to change your current approach?
Is the engine burning oil? How much?
Is oil pressure lower?
Because as the others have mentioned what you have been doing is perfect. Only reason to change is to respond to some change in how the engine is running now.

 

[mckenzie333]

It is not. Any oil that has BMW LL01, MB229.5, VW502.00 have minimum HTHS of 3.5cP regardless of grade (0/5W30 or 0/5W40) and are not FE oils.
Personally, I prefer Castrol Edge 0W30 for street driving whether spirited or not. $37 at AAP with filter.

I think that is the true German Castrol - better than Mobil 1 0-40 euro? HTHS ? I am tempted

 

[mckenzie333]

Is there anything which is making you think you need to change your current approach?
Is the engine burning oil? How much?
Is oil pressure lower?
Because as the others have mentioned what you have been doing is perfect. Only reason to change is to respond to some change in how the engine is running now.

Good questions- nothing now especially after replacing the coolant pipes near the manifold. My reason for reviewing my choice of oil was to ward off as much engine wear as possible to keep the car going

 

[edyvw]

I think that is the true German Castrol - better than Mobil 1 0-40 euro? HTHS ? I am tempted

Edge 0W30 is just bit above 3.5. M1 is 3.6-3.7.
Don’t get worked up around that. That matters only on track or racing, that small difference.
I run 0W30 and I push this BMW to the limit, including track (I run there XW40).

 

[mckenzie333]

5k to 6k mile OCIs with a LL-01 oil sounds like a great plan. PP Euro 5W-40 or QS Euro 5W-40 (same as PP) is what I’d choose in your case, assuming it’s conveniently available to you. They have excellent resistance to forming deposits and have very low volatility. I wouldn’t switch to Red Line.

I agree - I won’t switch to Redline - but now your suggestion of PP Euro and Edyvw’s of Castrol 0W30 have me wondering about Mobil 1 0w40. I know they are all excellent. Is HTHS a way to choose between them?

 

[mckenzie333]

Edge 0W30 is just bit above 3.5. M1 is 3.6-3.7.
Don’t get worked up around that. That matters only on track or racing, that small difference.
I run 0W30 and I push this BMW to the limit, including track (I run there XW40).

Interestingly a recent video on viscosity by the motor oil Geek showed Mobil I HtHs went down to 3.4 when in service. I appreciate your suggestion not to focus too much on HTHS.

 

[edyvw]

Interestingly a recent video on viscosity by the motor oil Geek showed Mobil I HtHs went down to 3.4 when in service. I appreciate your suggestion not to focus too much on HTHS.

Yes.
0W30 will be more shear stable.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Good questions- nothing now especially after replacing the coolant pipes near the manifold. My reason for reviewing my choice of oil was to ward off as much engine wear as possible to keep the car going

Don't change anything then except do a UOA to double check wear.
And enjoy the feeling of self satisfaction you were on track all along.

 

[edyvw]

Don't change anything then except do a UOA to double check wear.
And enjoy the feeling of self satisfaction you were on track all along.

M54 will run forever as long as it has appropriate oil, which M1 0W40 is.
The only way to kill that engine is neglecting coolant hoses, radiator or coolant reservoir.
That being said, OP, did you change that nut on oil pump? I would worry about that not wear certain oil might induce.

 

[mckenzie333]

M54 will run forever as long as it has appropriate oil, which M1 0W40 is.
The only way to kill that engine is neglecting coolant hoses, radiator or coolant reservoir.
That being said, OP, did you change that nut on oil pump? I would worry about that not wear certain oil might induce.

Interesting question- I haven’t had to change the oil pan gasket - so we have not changed the bolt. There isn’t a way to change the bolt without taking the oil pan off I think- my mechanic says it’s is costly to get in there -how often does the bolt go out I wonder? Do you feel it should always be addressed?

 

[edyvw]

Interesting question- I haven’t had to change the oil pan gasket - so we have not changed the bolt. There isn’t a way to change the bolt without taking the oil pan off I think- my mechanic says it’s is costly to get in there -how often does the bolt go out I wonder? Do you feel it should always be addressed?

Idk man, at that mileage, sheeez. Obviously you have beaten expectations for that nut . Is that RWD? It should be simpler job on RWD.
I would do it sooner rather than later.

 

[svenson]

They tell us that the cooling system does all the work. But we know that the oil also plays a role, one of its functions is to contribute to the cooling of the system. So what kind of oil, viscosity we put in and I think that the external temperature also plays a role.

For example, in the winter I never went over 90 degrees, even under high pressure.
In the summer I saw over 120... Not when I was going fast. When I was stuck in traffic... At idle.
The nice thing was that I also had the oil pressure next to me and the results of the temperature increase were obvious. Above 120 degrees it didn't go over 3 bar, when at 90 at the same rpm it was 4.5 bar.
Let's leave temperatures aside. At what pressure should the engine work so that it is properly lubricated and has normal wear and tear?
How is it possible that it is the same whether we have 50 degrees outside temperature or -5?
Personally, I have put many different oils in my own car.
Some took 10,000 km and were like new and others started to boil and fry from 2,000 km.
I ended up with 5-40.

this is from a friend of mine who lives in south italy .he did that test in his e46 bmw last summer. ambient temp was 38-40c.
can this be true? we have talked many times here about ambient temp and cooling system.

 

[JAG]

I agree - I won’t switch to Redline - but now your suggestion of PP Euro and Edyvw’s of Castrol 0W30 have me wondering about Mobil 1 0w40. I know they are all excellent. Is HTHS a way to choose between them?

I would choose based on the HTHS, because the differences are small enough and you aren’t racing the car. I rate them based on volatility and most importantly, on resistance to forming deposits. M1 0W-40 FS in its current formulation is not impressive in those categories. PP and QS Euro are impressive in them. Keeping OCIs less than 6k miles will keep the oil relatively clean and not overly stressed, helping with antiwear and cleaner pistons.

 

[Andyd95]

Stick with M1 and a Mann filter. It’s already been said but you want to money in the cooling system, that’s money well spent

 

[mckenzie333]

I would choose based on the HTHS, because the differences are small enough and you aren’t racing the car. I rate them based on volatility and most importantly, on resistance to forming deposits. M1 0W-40 FS in its current formulation is not impressive in those categories. PP and QS Euro are impressive in them. Keeping OCIs less than 6k miles will keep the oil relatively clean and not overly stressed, helping with antiwear and cleaner pistons.

Thanks Jag- the points you make reflect thorough analysis- I wonder what the HTHS is for the Pp or QS - certainly PP can be argued to be as good as M1 And Castrol 0w30 ? All three seem great

 

[edyvw]

Thanks Jag- the points you make reflect thorough analysis- I wonder what the HTHS is for the Pp or QS - certainly PP can be argued to be as good as M1 And Castrol 0w30 ? All three seem great

PPE is between 3.8 and 3.9cP.
PPE is very good oil. GTL base will benefit HTHS and low Noack.
But don't get stuck on HTHS. Wear does not go down just because HTHS is a bit higher. Thicker oil will also create more resistance and generate more heat.
Remember rule: "as thin as possible, as thick as necessary."

 

[JAG]

Pennzoil’s website is terrible and I can’t find the product data sheets. Recently, Quaker State removed Euro 5W-40 from their website, so I can’t point you to a definitely current HTHS. Edy gave estimates above. I don’t think M1 0W-40 FS is as good, overall, as these oils, based on my testing of the QS and M1 oils. That’s borderline blasphemy here but I have to say what I believe to be true.

I have not tested Castrol 0W-30 for over a decade, so I lack insight from that source. Castrol seems to have maintained it as a very high quality oil and it’s not heavily dosed with VIIs like some Euro oils are, which provides advantages in shear stability, volatility, and maybe deposit control.

 

[BMW Dom]

With 300k miles, I feel like we should be asking you for advise

 

[edyvw]

Pennzoil’s website is terrible and I can’t find the product data sheets. Recently, Quaker State removed Euro 5W-40 from their website, so I can’t point you to a definitely current HTHS. Edy gave estimates above. I don’t think M1 0W-40 FS is as good, overall, as these oils, based on my testing of the QS and M1 oils. That’s borderline blasphemy here but I have to say what I believe to be true.

I have not tested Castrol 0W-30 for over a decade, so I lack insight from that source. Castrol seems to have maintained it as a very high quality oil and it’s not heavily dosed with VIIs like some Euro oils are, which provides advantages in shear stability, volatility, and maybe deposit control.

SOPUS web aites are always bad.
But, Shell Helix (which PPE is) in last testing by oil.ru resulted in Noack of 5.7%. That is exceptional result! I would say based on all things, HTHS is probably around 3.8-3.9. Last time they posted HTHS for GTL based PPE, it was 3.88cP. Someone in correspondence with SOPUS got answer “around 3.8cP.”

That being said, I would not be surprised that companies eliminated HTHS from PDS in order to avoid comparisons and then people thinking that oil with HTHS of 3.9 is “better than one with HTHS of 3.8cP
I mean, I was running in BMW previous version of Mobil1 0W40FS with HTHS of 3.6cP on track to 300f temperature, and still did 5k OCI. And I ran PPE 5W40 on track, and Castrol Edge 0W40, and Motul X-Cess 5W40 GEN2, and Motul 300V 5W40.
For example, Castrol Edge 0W40 returned same wear numbers as 300V 5W40 although Edge 0W40 had track usage (actually really hard track time) while I used 300V only on street. Edge had HTHS of 3.7 and 300V 4cP.