I guess I'm still unsure of how the process works. For example, if Red Line buys an additive package that already passes the API SP specifications, then modifies it by boosting it etc., is it safe to assume the final produce still would pass all the engine tests (IVA/IIIH/SEQ X) etc.?
Red Line 5w20 - 7,000 miles - Dodge Ram
- Thread starter buster
- Start date
Of course it is not legal standard. It is deceptive marketing.
I posted here documentation some time ago. You can fish it out. Interestingly everytime issue of approvals is discussed it is these companies like Redline that are complaining how it is expensive, yet, there are smaller blenders who have approvals. It is this "we are small company, and big guys are against us," philosophy.
Redline developed oils. They claim that their oils are superior. That means their additive suppliers were already involved. Redline can send samples to any company that has specific approvals and they will return documentation whether their oils got it or not.
Tests for approvals are not done by Redline or any other company. Specific approvals are not self-certification like ACEA or API. You pack oil, you send it to Porsche, they send it documentation back.
Redline already has oils developed. They claim it meets and exceeds. How they know that? They ran specific tests, let's say Porsche A40, and they know their oil "meets" and "exceeds," so why they do not send oil to Porsche for approval?
Redline can run as much tests as it wants. Once Redline decided that they have final product, if they want approval, they pack oil and send it to vehicle manufacturer. Vehicle manufacturer sends back documentation stating whether oil is approved, until when, and how to display approval language (which apparently is still problem for some companies to do correctly, mostly Pennzoil).
Approvals are not there to screw over Redline, or anyone to make money. It is there for a customer to make oil selection as easy as possible.
This is where deceptive marketing comes into play by stating that oil "meets" or "exceeds."
So.... If Redline gets a additive package that passes API SP and Dexos... And Redline adds say more molybdenum and boron and calcium and magnesium to that additive package that already passes those specs...
I am thinking because they added to the existing additive package... It no longer passes.
I am thinking because they added to the existing additive package... It no longer passes.
Pennzoil also lumps things together somewhat like Redline.
Pull up a PDS of your favorite Pennzoil product. There is a category called Specifications, Approvals & Recommendations and here you'll find Redlineesque language too.
Pull up a PDS of your favorite Pennzoil product. There is a category called Specifications, Approvals & Recommendations and here you'll find Redlineesque language too.
Doing a UOA on a newer motor is probably not a good idea unless you think you have a problem with it. Typically I wait until after 30,000 miles to test. I ran my first on the 2014 until 90,000 miles. These numbers would concern me, but again its a new motor.
Right that is my point. Buying an approved additive package, making your own blended oil but not re-testing it leaves a question mark.
The engine Sequence tests are very expensive which is why they don't submit it for testing.
Btw, I'm not suggesting that Red Line or any boutique brands are bad either. Red Line is top notch for specific applications.
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Now that they are under the P66 brand and the "Professional" series has your typical list of approvals, I think the affordability line becomes a bit less valid. I expect it's additive levels that it prevent it from passing some of the foundational sequences many of the others are based on.
I would agree, but the Professional line uses components that allow read-across, so the basic sequence tests need not be re-done. Thus, much lower expense.
Right?
D
Deleted member 89374
@buster after reading all the horror stories about lifter and camshaft failures in the 5.7 HEMI and all the "wizards" on YouTube claiming that they have the answer as to why these HEMI engines fail, I decided that I will do what I can to improve my odds. My truck only has around 24,000 miles on it. At first, I was tempted to try Red Line 5W-30 because many on RamForumz and other sites claimed that they had good success with it. I also feared MDS issues and whatnot. It turned out that my MDS fears were unfounded. Anyway, because of cost, and because I wanted a viscosity that is pretty much a thick 5W-30, I opted for Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. The truck runs great on it, and other than the injector tick, there are no other noises. I bought a stethoscope and listened to the valve covers, and there are no ticking or clacking noises, just the rollers doing their thing. I would give Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 a try if I where you, your truck will love it.
I've read somewhere that Red Line's Professional Line of oils is just rebranded Kendall Oil. If you think about it, it makes sense, since they both are owned by the same company. IMHO, the Red Line Professional oils are overpriced for what they are.
I've read somewhere that Red Line's Professional Line of oils is just rebranded Kendall Oil. If you think about it, it makes sense, since they both are owned by the same company. IMHO, the Red Line Professional oils are overpriced for what they are.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Perhaps, but that only applies to grades with like approvals, and there are a whole host of different products with different approvals that are sold under the "Professional" moniker, but as we know, these are actually P66 and Kendal lubes.
Obviously P66 has the resources that, if approvals were something they were interested in for the white bottle product, they could afford it. As I stated, I expect the products legacy additive package and high levels of additives play a role in why.
Except Pennzoil is on the approval list of vehicle manufacturers. Granted, Pennzoil does horrible job how they sort out approvals.
Well, if Redline has approval for one mix, and they than change it, they should do another approval. If they do not, vehicle manufacturer can most definitely sue them.
That is why Redline states "meet" and "exceeds" not "approved."
Now professional series is different thing, but that is Kendall sold as Redline, so that people can feel special buying it.
Excuse me if I am missing something but I think your still trying to get answers to last years UOA?
Is there a reason you didnt do one this year?
Anyway, the responses you got from Red Line are interesting, for me, I would simply try normal ANY brand oil that carries the required Certification from Chrysler/Dodge ... You will save money and the results will be the same or better then what you are doing, plus you are taking the advice on using the proper oil from the actual manufacturer of the engine and not an oil company trying to sell you oil.
) .
Just my thoughts ..
Is there a reason you didnt do one this year?
Anyway, the responses you got from Red Line are interesting, for me, I would simply try normal ANY brand oil that carries the required Certification from Chrysler/Dodge ... You will save money and the results will be the same or better then what you are doing, plus you are taking the advice on using the proper oil from the actual manufacturer of the engine and not an oil company trying to sell you oil.
) .Just my thoughts ..
I would do another oil as control variable, or two oils, then Redline again.Excuse me if I am missing something but I think your still trying to get answers to last years UOA?
Is there a reason you didnt do one this year?
Anyway, the responses you got from Red Line are interesting, for me, I would simply try normal ANY brand oil that carries the required Certification from Chrysler/Dodge ... You will save money and the results will be the same or better then what you are doing, plus you are taking the advice on using the proper oil from the actual manufacturer of the engine and not an oil company trying to sell you oil.
Just my thoughts ..
Similar threads
