Relax! You think that your under some sort of invasion of privacy because of a red light camera? All it is is a tool for law enforcement to utilize in order to assist them in keeping idiots from breaking the law and possibly hurting someone. Trust me, cops are HIGHLY scrutinized while at work. Far more than you are at your job. They have one of the toughest jobs in this country and yet you sound like you have zero appreciation of this. This isn't a "big brother" tactic, it's law enforcement. Driving isn't a right. Laws, rules, limits, and most policeman, are in place for all of us to have a safer journey....not "spy" on us. And if you want to drive around with a camcorder, taping a cop all day, nobody is stopping you.
red light cameras
- Thread starter phillyFX4
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If the laws, the cops, the courts are soley out to keep us all safe, and nothing else, then why are the raking in so much money?
First of all, although it may appear that they "rake" in a lot of money, the costs of employing a police officer, fighting "contested" traffic infractions and lawyers, dealing with police unions, training, and dealing with the recent economy, have all but strained law enforcement and it's ability to help protect and serve us. Not all cops are great, but neither are all of us out on the roads. It is our civic duty to obey the laws....or change them utilizing the courts and/or election process. It's really too bad that we all can't go on a ride-along with a cop to see just what kind of human refuse these folks deal with every day. Maybe then, all this anger towards the job they perform, would be somewhat reduced, and an understanding of why these traffic cameras are needed at some intersections.
Andrews, in your mind you want a perfect world, whatever this is we live in is far from perfect, myself included. Did you know these things have caused a marked increase in rearend MVC's?
MarkC, agree with your posts except making police work tougher.....I'd rather put the cameras in our mayors' and other elected officials offices to see what they're doing with OUR $, maybe we'll find the real reason for these cameras.
MarkC, agree with your posts except making police work tougher.....I'd rather put the cameras in our mayors' and other elected officials offices to see what they're doing with OUR $, maybe we'll find the real reason for these cameras.
That sort of thing can cause more accidents, too.
Nobody should be playing with yellow light timing on traffic lights.
Nobody should be stupid enough to think it's acceptable, either.
As I said before, a red light camera is no solution if the intersection has a design problem that is causing the red light violations.
I also made an analogy about putting a bigger fuse in instead of fixing the overload.
But, wouldn't you know, this is the same country where they outlawed fuse boxes for residential use (they're still OK for commercial use) because people were doing exactly that.
Maybe it's a problem in the educational system.
"Did you know these things have caused a marked increase in rearend MVC's?"
absolutely, positively wrong.
The increase in rear-end MVC is purely due to tailgating and/or failure to maintain proper separation. period. Or more simply, it is caused by the idiot behind the person with the nerve to actually stop for a RED LIGHT....or a yellow, which is perfectly legit, btw.
If a guy in front of me stops for a RED LIGHT (which btw, will be visible to me as well if I am maintaining proper separation), and I rear end him, how on earth is that the camera's fault?
absolutely, positively wrong.
The increase in rear-end MVC is purely due to tailgating and/or failure to maintain proper separation. period. Or more simply, it is caused by the idiot behind the person with the nerve to actually stop for a RED LIGHT....or a yellow, which is perfectly legit, btw.
If a guy in front of me stops for a RED LIGHT (which btw, will be visible to me as well if I am maintaining proper separation), and I rear end him, how on earth is that the camera's fault?
No, it doesn't work well, but it does work to some extent. Every time I see a police car on the road I notice the speeders slowing down to his speed. Also, when the speeders see a police car at the side of the road, they slow to the limit. Better than nothing.
There's a small town nearby that put a police car in the median of the highway with a "safety man" dummy in the driver's seat dressed as a cop. Everyone approaching on the highway slows down to the limit thinking it's a real cop who's clocking them. I'm sure it helps to reduce the number of accidents in their town.
AMEN! Take slavery and segregation, for example. And just because a law makes something illegal doesn't mean the law is right. We have a highway here in town that's 8 lanes wide. Some moronic traffic engineer decided that the speed limit should be 45 MPH. Now the traffic cops are bitching to the City Council saying they need more personnel to enforce the speed because all the drivers are doing 60+. Come on, it's a freakin' 8-LANE HIGHWAY!
If that's true, then the speed limit is most likely below the 85th percentile, which is supposed to be the standard for setting speed limits.
So, we should strive for imperfection then? Should we exist only to please ourselves? What's your point? Simply obey the law and you'll find that getting a traffic ticket will be a thing of the past.
You must be a young guy if you honestly believe that. My '73 Ford torino was much more quite and had less feel for the road than 99% of todays cars.
Calm down....life has more to offer than worrying about traffic lights!
Let's get real here people. Yes there are a lot of problems with intersections, and traffic lights where there is no real need. Still, there are too many people driving aggressively, entering intersections long after the light is red, following so closely they will rear end anybody foolish enough to obey the law. These people deserve to be shot, not with a camera, but with a gun. More so if they are driving a big truck they only ever use to intimidate anybody not wanting to give up their right of way. No mercy for cell phone users either. You are driving. Pay attention and watch what is happening up ahead. Also,happen to be looking at the light when it changes to green.
We have to have some way of regulating traffic flow at intersections. It is time to start making traffic lights work. Excessively long yellows and 4 way reds were a dumb idea that didn't work. The yellow needs to be long enough to allow people to either make a controlled stop or be through the intersection before the light is green the other way. That way the green can be longer. Needless to say, there should be signs posted when a change is made.
We have to have some way of regulating traffic flow at intersections. It is time to start making traffic lights work. Excessively long yellows and 4 way reds were a dumb idea that didn't work. The yellow needs to be long enough to allow people to either make a controlled stop or be through the intersection before the light is green the other way. That way the green can be longer. Needless to say, there should be signs posted when a change is made.
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Andrews
I think you paint WAY TOO simplistic a view on this.
I'll try and give you a decent expample.
Our local city council created a "Landlord's ordinance". Due to the problems with renters, the council decided to put the burden on the landlords to be responsible for the tenants that they rent to.
They simply issued an edict and that was the end of it.
They never said that the landlord had any practical legal pathway to enforce the ordinance. The landlord was on his own and would be subject to any legal ramifications in complying with "The LAW".
In this same train of thought. SURE YOU SHOULD COMPLY WITH THE LAW ...but is the way that the law is configured and enforced ..just?
I can say DON'T J-WALK or I'll give you the penalty of death ...and I can in the same breath/authority require you to make a 25 mile detour on foot.
I'm sure you can see that this isn't simply "OBEY THE LAW". Although the law may be just ..the conditions that it is implimented under may be ---not.
I think you paint WAY TOO simplistic a view on this.
I'll try and give you a decent expample.
Our local city council created a "Landlord's ordinance". Due to the problems with renters, the council decided to put the burden on the landlords to be responsible for the tenants that they rent to.
They simply issued an edict and that was the end of it.
They never said that the landlord had any practical legal pathway to enforce the ordinance. The landlord was on his own and would be subject to any legal ramifications in complying with "The LAW".
In this same train of thought. SURE YOU SHOULD COMPLY WITH THE LAW ...but is the way that the law is configured and enforced ..just?
I can say DON'T J-WALK or I'll give you the penalty of death ...and I can in the same breath/authority require you to make a 25 mile detour on foot.
I'm sure you can see that this isn't simply "OBEY THE LAW". Although the law may be just ..the conditions that it is implimented under may be ---not.
How about a count-down timer showing the number of seconds until the light changes to yellow?
They've got 'em for pedestrian signals.
Which reminds me, if you pay attention to the pedestrian signal you can know that the light is about to change to yellow a good 15 seconds before it does.
As for me, I tend to drive the same roads each day and I know about how fast I need to drive to get to the next light BEFORE it turns yellow. Usually accelerating right to 5 above the speed limit does it (go figure!).
As opposed to some of these fools who drive 5 below and then accelerate when the light starts turning yellow.
I think my way is better.
How about just delaying the soon to be Green Light another second or two?, standard, across the country.
That is the current stupid, ignorant system that encourages people to blast through the intersection after the light turns red.quote:
Originally posted by phillyFX4:
How about just delaying the soon to be Green Light another second or two?, standard, across the country.
If the yellow light time were insufficient to begin with (maybe someone screwed up on their MUTCD calculations, maybe there's a downhill grade approach to the light, etc.), there would be nothing stupid or ignorant about extending it.
What would be stupid or ignorant (both, actually) would be to put a red light camera there.
This actually happened on US50 in Fairfax, VA. A red-light camera went in. The high rate of violations continued. Keep in mind that this intersection had a rate of red-light violations higher than any other intersection around it.
Not until VDOT raised the yellow-light time did the violations drop to a normal level.
Now, I ask you...if an intersection has a significantly higher rate of violations than the ones around it, is that a problem with the intersection or the drivers?
Logical troubleshooting steps would lead me to conclude that it's most likely a problem with the intersection--those same drivers aren't running red lights elsewhere.
Concluding that it's the drivers would be like concluding that your TV set it broken because it doesn't work in a certain outlet in your house.
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In San Francisco, the red light cams have dramatically cut down on accidents that were due to red light runners -- from what I see. I see almost no red light runners on Geary Blvd, where people used to cross going 50 mph! I've see unbelieveable crashes in this city over the years.
I agree that a delayed green phase is an open invitation to red light running and is totally idiotic. A viable option would be an additional orange phase between red and green, which is common in other countries.
The orange phase should be the same at all traffic lights! Make it consistent for crying out loud! If you drive in an unfamiliar city you may not know whether to stop or to step on it, because you are not familair with orange phase duration! Sometimes it's plain dangerous to stop if people behind you expect you to keep going.
A clearly visible countdown timer or gradually changing color (green -> yellow -> orange -> red) would be useful.
I agree that a delayed green phase is an open invitation to red light running and is totally idiotic. A viable option would be an additional orange phase between red and green, which is common in other countries.
The orange phase should be the same at all traffic lights! Make it consistent for crying out loud! If you drive in an unfamiliar city you may not know whether to stop or to step on it, because you are not familair with orange phase duration! Sometimes it's plain dangerous to stop if people behind you expect you to keep going.
A clearly visible countdown timer or gradually changing color (green -> yellow -> orange -> red) would be useful.
The yellow phase is, according to the MUTCD, to be set according to the speed limit of the road[1]. Higher speed limits mean longer yellow phases. A downgrade approach to the light means a longer yellow phase (with the yellow phase increased as the grade gets steeper). Those are just two of the factors that enter into the calculation of the proper yellow phase time..there are more but I don't recall them.
[1]Originally it stated 85-percentile speed but it was changed to say "speed limit". Some roads have a lower speed limit than 85-percentile speed, so the yellow light time for those roads is too short (and the speed limit too low).
Consistancy has its virtues, but I am afraid we need a longer yellow out on the highway where 2 60 mph highways cross, than in a congested city with a 25 MPH speed limit. Make the yellow long enough that it is easy to avoid running the red. Ticket, suspend, or jail as needed, those that fail to adjust.
I am all for camrea's and remote photo radar. It was used a lot in Germany were I learned to drive! Unlike Germany though I do not feel protected at all by law enforcement! I do not feel that most LEO's are doing anyting other then generateing revanue for the state. I think it is really stupid to risk a mans life over revanue! How many times do we hear of a LEO getting killed while enforceing the speed limit!
I agree that running a red light or stop sign is very dangerious! You also though are not supposed to come to a stop in the middle of the intersection! If a light is yellow you have every right to continue on. If it turns read while you are under the light it would be impossable for you to stop with out comeing to a stop in the intersection!
I would have no problem at all if a county or city replaced 1/2 of their LEO's with electronic eqipment so long as the ones they keep start takeing it to the hardened crimanals.
I truly belive that a LEO walking a beat makeing his presence known can do a lot to reduce crime! The problem is that reduceing crime and busting crimanals does not make money for the State,City or County so you will never see that happen!!
I agree that running a red light or stop sign is very dangerious! You also though are not supposed to come to a stop in the middle of the intersection! If a light is yellow you have every right to continue on. If it turns read while you are under the light it would be impossable for you to stop with out comeing to a stop in the intersection!
I would have no problem at all if a county or city replaced 1/2 of their LEO's with electronic eqipment so long as the ones they keep start takeing it to the hardened crimanals.
I truly belive that a LEO walking a beat makeing his presence known can do a lot to reduce crime! The problem is that reduceing crime and busting crimanals does not make money for the State,City or County so you will never see that happen!!
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