Recommended Viscosity Observations

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Hey everyone,

From what I can gather automakers recommend a certain oil viscosity for a host of reasons. But it appears their choice typically boils down to protection and fuel economy. It seems that American and Asian car manufacturers prefer lighter weight oils as they provide a boost in fuel economy. European automakers on the other hand seem to like heavier grades.

I'm not trying to get into a debate over which approach is best. But I have a theory as to why automakers recommend a certain grade. I think companies like Toyota,Honda,Nissan, Hyundai, Ford, and GM choose lightweight oils because one of their main selling points is fuel economy. For example, the mid size sedan segment is very aggressive, I see a ton of commercials from different automakers saying how their car gets 1 or 2 mpg more than the competition. I think it's safe to say most drivers won't be redlining/flooring/abusing their cars every single day.

On the other hand European automakers like Mercedes and BMW recommend heavier grades for their engines. Now my guess for this is that their more interested in providing consumers with performance. So they make engines with high compression and attempt to squeeze out as much HP as they can. In my opinion people who own such cars have a tendency to drive harder. I think their aggressive engine designs are a hostile environment for oil to live in. As a result they call for robust oil formulations that meet their standards.

I'm not saying lightweight oils don't provide protection, look at the Corvette Z06 for example, the recommended viscosity is 5W-30. Owners of Corvette's certainly like to experience the performance they paid for and I doubt GM would choose an oil not up to the job. These are just some observations I thought I would point out, feel free to share your thoughts on the subject. I'm still new to oil related topics so forgive me If my statements are incorrect.

-Thanks
 
Firstly, heavier oil does not equate with greater engine protection. Most engine wear occurs on start-up and during warm-up so even the lightest 0W-20 is thicker than necessary under those conditions.

The Europeans OEM specify somewhat heavier oil for a number of reasons, not all lubrication based. Higher cruising speeds means higher engine rev's which translates into higher oil consumption. Heavier oil will reduce that consumption.
BMW for example does specify a light 0W-30 as an option for increased fuel economy for a number of models and their is no speed restriction on the use of that grade, although anyone interested in fuel economy isn't likely going to be driving flat out on the autobahn.

The best advise I can give someone confused about what oil grade to use, is to go with the lightest grade specified by the manufacturer in any jurisdiction that that make and model is sold. Even with aggressive driving including track use the viscosity demands of the engine will always be met; the ECU safety management systems are based on the lightest recommended grade.
 
I've wondered this too. My '07 BMW 530xi uses Mazda high-moly 0w-20 due to mostly short trips & cold weather. When taking longer trips, I don't get the revs past 5,000, from a 7,000 redline. My garaged '11 Camaro 3.6L V6 gets the recommended 5w-30.

I keep thinking back to when I began using Mobil1 synth oil in 1975-1983 when only 5w-20 was available, and in an era when there were more people choosing 40 oils. Were there any cases of the old Mobil1 causing engine failures?
 
I used to have M1 0W40 in my E430 for many years since 2000, around 2008-2009 the engine was noisier than normal I changed to PP 5W20 and the engine was much quieter, it rev more freely at all temp and RPM. PP 5W20 was in the engine when I went to Vegas and got stuck near Death Valleys for 3 hours with ambient temperature hoovered around 120F. The coolant temp was below 195-200F all the time sitting under the hot sun, the car didn't have oil temp.

If the E430 was driven full speed on Autobahn for hours then M1 0W40 is needed, but for driving at around 80-90 MPH or slower than xW40 is not needed.

The engine didn't use any measurable amount of oil, regardless if the oil was M1 0W40 or various brand xW20, but it needs synthetic.
 
And we need to take into account the 0w-20 dexos1-spec oil going into new 5.3L Chevy V8 pickup trucks. Towing boats. Also, my old 2005 Ford F150 4.6L V8 like the one in Crown Vic taxi cabs, used 5w-20 in heavy duty service. Seems 20 weights can take it.
 
If an engine is stressed over long periods, a heavier oil helps. This is why NASCAR has qualifying oil and race oil. Many manufacturers recommend a heavier weight oil when towing. The trend is for lighter oils for economy and they have improved over the years. Even the 10W-30 for big rigs seems to be holding up well as they always ran 40 wt in the past. Just run what's in the owners manual unless you have a special situation.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I used to have M1 0W40 in my E430 for many years since 2000, around 2008-2009 the engine was noisier than normal I changed to PP 5W20 and the engine was much quieter, it rev more freely at all temp and RPM. PP 5W20 was in the engine when I went to Vegas and got stuck near Death Valleys for 3 hours with ambient temperature hoovered around 120F. The coolant temp was below 195-200F all the time sitting under the hot sun, the car didn't have oil temp.

If the E430 was driven full speed on Autobahn for hours then M1 0W40 is needed, but for driving at around 80-90 MPH or slower than xW40 is not needed.

The engine didn't use any measurable amount of oil, regardless if the oil was M1 0W40 or various brand xW20, but it needs synthetic.


Your Death Valley experience sounds tougher than the autobahn, if I recall the Mobil presentation on the non PAO 0w40 correctly.
 
Who knows?
What we do know is that there is often a spread of three grades between the oil recommended for any given engine across all of the markets it's sold in.
I think that this tells us that as long as you don't go crazy in selecting a grade to use, the engine will be fine.
20W-50 would obviously be a poor choice for a northern (or extreme southern) winter, but would probably be fine for summer use, although probably not a great choice.
Even that grade is among those recommended for many engines for which only a twenty grade is recommended in this country.
Use any grade suitable for ambient temperatures in any engine and I doubt that you'll see any problems.
After all, the SAE grades come with temperature range guidelines, without regard to what any OM might say.
 
Originally Posted By: Ram01
Always go a grade up then your recommended grade


No ..... No evidence to support that statement.
 
This topic is driving me crazy. I have a 2014 Fiesta ST - the ST supplement manual says to use 5w-20, this 1.6 liter engine hits 21 lbs of boost. Overseas the manual specs 5w-30. I want to use Mobil 0w-40 but Caterham's comments make sense causing my OCD to go into overload.

I talk to the guys at Boost Performance Products and they show me engine teardowns to support their claims. They tell me to run a 40 wt with their moly and antimony additive - real world data to back it up.
 
Originally Posted By: Jasonenginetech
This topic is driving me crazy. I have a 2014 Fiesta ST - the ST supplement manual says to use 5w-20, this 1.6 liter engine hits 21 lbs of boost. Overseas the manual specs 5w-30. I want to use Mobil 0w-40 but Caterham's comments make sense causing my OCD to go into overload.

I talk to the guys at Boost Performance Products and they show me engine teardowns to support their claims. They tell me to run a 40 wt with their moly and antimony additive - real world data to back it up.


Fiesta ST extremely fun machine!

To be sure about a turbo direct injection application like that, I'd use any oil that carries the HTO-06 extra turbo performance specification tests, like any Pennzoil synthetic, Mobil1, I think Castrol synthetics have it. 5w-30 is fine if you plan on driving very hard, and an non-HTO-06 5w-20 synthetic should be plenty if it doesn't spend a lot of time near redline.
 
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I'm in the same boat with my Focus ST. It spec's 5w30, and I guess it'll probably be ok. But I've seen several UOA's that indicate pretty severe shearing with very few miles 4k or so. I will autocross/Track Day this car like my old Camaro which I ran M1 0w40 with great results. I know you can't compare NA motor to turbo motor, but that LT1 was built a little and I beat the absolute snot out of it, like 5500 rpm in 4th down the back stretch of Gateway road course lap after smiling lap. Then not change the oil, and drive it to work and autocross next weekend. I just don't know...And I'm a life long M1 user, never had a single problem with cars or bikes I abused like a irrational human being. But this new Pennzoil GTL has me interested, in switching really. It's a fascinating leap forward in technology IMO. Wow, glad I got that off my chest.
 
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