recomenfation for 5.4 triton with startup clatter

[HankHill]

2001 f-150 with 117k
motorcraft 5w-20 motorcraft oil f

On startup untill the motor is warm, I have a lot of valve train or lower end knocking noise. Sounds like a diesel motor untill it wsrms up.
I did have m1 5-30 in there at one point and the noise was there.

Im asking for suggestions for an oil that will perform better on startup.

Fire away!!

 

[OVERKILL]

Sounds like piston slap, nothing is going to touch it. What do you use for filters? The start-up clatter that some Modulars get is usually alleviated with the Motorcraft filters, but that doesn't sound like what you are describing.

 

[HankHill]

I Always run motorcraft. Thing that baffles me is it didnt do it in warm weather.

 

[dlundblad]

^ My Jeep is very vocal with most non OEM filters. The noise is pretty difficult to describe. Mopar and Motorcraft are made by the same company (Purolator) and both use identical bypass designs. If you aren't using a Motorcraft filter, its definitely worth considering.

* Nevermind.

 

[HankHill]

Yeah, my filter education came from my 4.0 liters in my cherokees. I didnt know they were made by purolater though, interesting.

 

[volk06]

The only other filter that I've used that hasn't made any noise is the fram toughgard and the fram ultra. Those might be worth a shot as well. The only other thing I can think of is switching to a different oil for quietness. However, you have a solid setup and one of the best combinations already.

 

[jaynissan12]

I have heard this with this engine, I would check the exhaust manifold gaskets. Reason is when they are cold after some age on them, they are not sealing like they used to and will begin to seal after the engine is warm thus the gasket and metal around it expands and seals. I don't think it is piston slap but I could be wrong. There have been many others who eliminated this startup noise simply changing out the gaskets, take it for what its worth.

I changed oils, different types of filters, nothing eliminated it but did not change the gaskets. Google it, you will see that this is a possibility.

 

[HankHill]

I had to replace BOTH exh. Manifolds this summer, I had the dealer do it and have personally checked there work. I would be going for the same cause with the temp differential.

Kinda stumped..

 

[Danno]

Or cracked exhaust manifolds. Er. Never mind.

 

[OVERKILL]

Well piston slap, unlike rod knock, gets quieter (and eventually goes away) as the engine warms. Given that you've already had the manifolds done (and they tick, not knock, I'm sure you've observed the difference in the sounds) it sounds like those likely are not it.

That said, Trav had converter "knock"; the cat on his Expedition (same engine) was making a noise that sounded a lot like rod knock. Hopefully he'll chime in with the details. Otherwise, if it is piston slap, it is basically harmless.

 

[HankHill]

I figured it was "normal" or rather harmless. Just looking for ideas.. Or oil recommendations, but I figured I had the best setup for that motor.

 

[4wheeldog]

Piston slap is not a lubrication issue......It is caused by the piston skirts being slightly collapsed, and expanding a bit when they warm up, keeping the piston from continuing to rock in the cylinder. Annoying, but not worth fixing, until something else makes you go into the motor (If ever).

 

[Wampahoofus]

+1 on piston slap.

The MC filters seem to be among the favorites for preventing oil-related startup clatter. MC and 5W-20 are a dang good combination, I tell you what.

(I really just wanted to poke a little fun)

 

[jaynissan12]

That would leave me a little stumped to. If it goes away once warm I wouldn't worry too much, at least it isn't the cam phasers, would be doing it with valve rattle after it warmed up as well. Seems there was a TSB on this engine in regards to the noise with the suggestion to use a 10w-40 oil to lessen the noise. Maybe give that a try, don't see that it would hurt anything. Its definitely not a quiet engine from my experience with it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Piston slap is not a lubrication issue......It is caused by the piston skirts being slightly collapsed, and expanding a bit when they warm up, keeping the piston from continuing to rock in the cylinder. Annoying, but not worth fixing, until something else makes you go into the motor (If ever).


They don't have to be collapsed, they just need to be loose fitting, like in the GM "slapper" engines, which made noise from the factory. Piston slap became an issue with the advent of shorter skirts and bulk-fit pistons. The "solution" was to coat the skirts, something Ford was doing and GM eventually did too.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: jaynissan12
That would leave me a little stumped to. If it goes away once warm I wouldn't worry too much, at least it isn't the cam phasers, would be doing it with valve rattle after it warmed up as well. Seems there was a TSB on this engine in regards to the noise with the suggestion to use a 10w-40 oil to lessen the noise. Maybe give that a try, don't see that it would hurt anything. Its definitely not a quiet engine from my experience with it.


Being a 2001, this engine is a 2V and does not have phasers.

 

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Piston slap is not a lubrication issue......It is caused by the piston skirts being slightly collapsed, and expanding a bit when they warm up, keeping the piston from continuing to rock in the cylinder. Annoying, but not worth fixing, until something else makes you go into the motor (If ever).


They don't have to be collapsed, they just need to be loose fitting, like in the GM "slapper" engines, which made noise from the factory. Piston slap became an issue with the advent of shorter skirts and bulk-fit pistons. The "solution" was to coat the skirts, something Ford was doing and GM eventually did too.


I just assumed since it sounded like the motor did not always do this, that something changed. And some motors are known for piston skirts eventually losing close contact with the cylinder walls when cold, but expanding when hot.

 

[jaynissan12]

true, I wasn't saying it had them, I was saying be glad he didn't have that problem.

 

[1034]

I'd check the timing chain guides (plastic/nylon) and tensioners- very common item on the Ford mod motors.
I think you'll find the problem there.

 

[doublebase]

I'll tell yeah I have heard of some horror stories regarding that 5.4 engine. Piston slap is normal on some GM engines, but piston slap on a 5.4 might mean something shortly down the road. I had a friend who just lost his 5.4 engine in his F150...80k miles...always changed the oil. I said, those things aren't a troublesome engine...he said, oh yeah, google it.