Even Amsoil is open to lawsuits, so if they show claims of other products performance they better have the test data to back it up if someone like Toyota says their claim is wrong. No company with any brains and a few lawyers is just going to make false stuff up these days and get sued over it.
Reasoning as to why extended OCI oil filters might need better micron ratings than normal filters?
- Thread starter MrPlow
- Start date
Use Oem or a wix and sleep well at night if you’re doing 5-10k oci; longer go full synthetic.
*What about using a 15,000 ~ 20,000 mile oil filter for two or three OCI's ?
To the OP, yes, better micron ratings would be preferred accross the board.
Fram Ultra seems to be the answer to this request.
I don't think any engine is going to "fail" from a well-constructed filter with medium micron rating in 100-200k mi.
So, its not like Toyota is doing anything that would make a car fail. These aren't BAD filters, they just aren't the BEST.
Every part in a vehicle is scrutinized for cost, so if you could save $2 from every oil filter/car, for Toyota in america that means $4+Million additional profit.
If other parts in the vehicle will fail at 200k mi, why put in a filter meant to take the engine well beyond that?
Fram Ultra seems to be the answer to this request.
Use OEM, avoid Wix XP - they stopped publishing micron ratings because it is worse than std. Wix. Use std. Wix if you must.
I don't think any engine is going to "fail" from a well-constructed filter with medium micron rating in 100-200k mi.
So, its not like Toyota is doing anything that would make a car fail. These aren't BAD filters, they just aren't the BEST.
Every part in a vehicle is scrutinized for cost, so if you could save $2 from every oil filter/car, for Toyota in america that means $4+Million additional profit.
If other parts in the vehicle will fail at 200k mi, why put in a filter meant to take the engine well beyond that?
I'd only do that if I knew the filter was high efficiency per ISO 4548-12. From the test data we've seen in this forum, a lower efficiency oil filter will typically become less efficient as it loads up because the media can't retain captured debris very well as the delta-p keeps increasing.
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100% yes.... soot is "sub-micronic"... no standard oil filter can remove soot (the particles are just too small).
Some large "depth" style oil filter can remove SOME soot, but generally never all of it.
I have 624,000 miles on my 1993 civic and use the Amsoil oil filter. I have posted under used oil analysis many
Iso particle counts.
Iso particle counts.
Thats why I now only use the OEM filter on my Accord. Honda recommends 12K beteween oil changes and 24K between filter changes. I used to always use Napa Platinum filters but Napa only recommends those filters for up to 7.5K.
Especially when you consider that the Honda OEM filter is $7 and the Napa Platinums are anywhere from $7-11, I just cant convince myself to not use the OEM filter.
The NAPA Platinum is their long OCI use filter, like the WIX XP.
Most filter makers say you can use their filters per the vehicle manufactuer's recommended service interval. Where does it state that the NAPA Platinum is only good for up to 7500 miles?
The NAPA website link does say: "Vehicles' Oil Life Monitor, Owner's Manual Recommendation:". So if that allows to go over 7500 miles then it would allow a filter run for more than 7500 miles.
WIX (which is the same filter as the NAPA) says the filter is warrantied for the period recommended by the engine manufacturer, so that means they are confident it will run that long. So if Honda says the recommended OCI is 24K and you do that within a year, it would be considered appropriate by WIX.
I didn't look at NAPA's website for an actual warranty statement, but I'd think it would be similar to the WIX warranty statement (links below).
The “Warranty Period” is the service interval for filter replacements recommended
by the manufacturer of the engine or equipment.
Check this out. WIX says there will be filter or damage from a failed filter warrantly coverage if the wrong oil viscosity is used. So that means even if the failure was caused by the oil filter, WIX has an out if you used a different viscosity than the one recommended by the vehicle manufacture. That's a new one.
CONDITIONS
For filters, this limited warranty DOES NOT COVER:
• Use of motor oil other than the viscosity and type as recommended by the manufacturer of the engine or equipment.
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If you’re going to push out OCIs to extremely long distances (unless it’s a Honda), realize you are on your own as far as filter warranties go. I’ve done it with an (OG) Ultra, but not anymore (once the OGs are used up). The cost effectiveness just isn’t there when Champ/Luberfiner Ecores are ~$1.50 each on RA, and I cut them, use them for firestarters in the wood stove, & fish out/scrap the steel, so there’s no waste involved as far as I’m concerned. I’ll just change them every time…
Supposedly Toyota (and Honda) favors flow rate over filtering efficiency for smaller particle sizes, to for their now 10,000 mile OCI's
I have to do 5,000 mile OCI's due to the wording in the owner's manual.
Or I could just use the Honda OEM filter, that is cheaper than a Napa Platinum and is actually designed by the manufacturer and meets their specifications for that OCI. *shrug*
and thats why I stopped using the Napa filters. I used them for years on other vehicles that Ive owned but those were only 5K OCIs. If I run even a Napa Platinum 12K miles and have an issue that is traced back to the filter failing, Napa is going to tell me, "too bad, so sad" once they know that I ran the filter past 7500 miles.
Like I said, for $7 I could just buy the Honda OEM filter and if I use the OEM filter and follow the maintenance schedule that is outlined in the owner's manual, there really is nothing that they can hold against me.
Its the same with the Hyundai. Its still under 100K, so I always use the Hundai OEM filter and change the oil every 5K, like they recommend. I also keep all my reciepts so that they cant deny me a warranty claim should I ever need it use it.
"Favors flow rate over filtering efficiency" really isn't a thing due to the fact that a positive displacement oil pump forces oil through the oiling system. Honda most likely uses low efficiency oil filters because their maintenance schedule can allow the filter to be ran many miles.
Talking oil filters here, and presto a winter wonderland with matching Toyota SUV.
I think BITOGers tend to emphasize the extremes of engine life instead of focusing on the more realistic average engine life span.
Ex. On one hand, too many pretend that a 10K OCI means the engine will barely make 100k miles, while on the other hand, too many pretend if you pick just the right OCI, oil, and filter it means 500K miles will be easy.
In reality, I think simply following the manufacturer's OCI, engine oil cert requirement, and using a good quality oil filter will 99% of the time give most people an engine life span somewhere between these extremes in the 200-300k miles range and the death of that engine may have nothing to do with oil anyway.
Because they've already proven it, so if you refute it then the owness is on you. I believe they used Southwest Research Institute to do the tests.
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