Reason that Mobil 1 darkens is...

[GMorg]

JAG,

I have just re-read the entire thread. As far as I can tell, no one questioned the validity of anything. We don't know what you did (no methods) and we therefore cannot come to any independent conclusions. We cannot even express much in the way of specific questions because we don't know what you did. We have an introduction, almost. We don't really have any methods. We don't really have any conclusions being offered. I'm not sure how we can offer a logical discusion.

Do you have any conclusions from you experiments?

Did you have a particular hyposthesis that you were testing or were you trying to quantitate and describe?

Again, other than Alan's "arrogance" comment, I don't see anything in this thread other than curiosity.

You are a scientist. How would you respond?

 

[Tremo]

Yes, I remember Arco Graphite. It came right out of the can totally black, just like well-used oil. That oil was disaster in a turbocharged engine, the graphite suspended in the oil would severely coke the turbo bearing and the thing would fail. Been there, done that on a *** 79 Buick Regal.

Don't know why it was withdrawn from the market, I guess people just weren't buying it.

Re M1, it does go black pretty quickly in my wife's 1.9L Escort motor. It darkens a bit more slowly in my 5.0L Chevy V8. Does that mean my V8 runs the oil cooler than the Ford 4-banger?

 

[BrianWC]

My M1 has always came out black as night but I always just figured it was the combo of the high heat from the turbo and the fact that saab turbo engines run kinda rich.

 

[Brian R.]

One of my cars makes M1 get quite darker at 5000 miles and the other doens't hardly change the color at all. I think there is way too much emphasis placed on color. Some oxidation products may be very highly colored and make the oil look dark at relatively low concentrations, whereas, some oxidation products may have very little color and have a large chemical effect without noticing a color change.

 

[Alan]

Thanks for this "final word" lol.
I am sure Mobil is comforted knowing that you and your oven experiments are getting to the bottom of this.

 

[JAG]

No need to get immature and sarcastic now. Go do some tests yourself and until then you have nothing to offer just as your first post has nothing to offer. Keep that cognitive part of your brain working. No need to get emotional, waste our time, and ruin the informative value of this thread.

 

[Alan]

I feel so humbled.....

Truth be told your oven test is a worthless in finding why whomever thinks Mobil 1 products darken in an engine.

Have a day.

 

[craigq]

Jag, do you have any before/after pictures of the results ? It would be neat to see

Sport Rider did a motorcycle oil comparison test in 2003, one section of the testing was the Noack test measuring evaporative heat loss. Here's the URL for part II with the test results:
Sport Rider Oil Test 2K3 with before/after pictures of some of the heated oils about mid-way through the page. Even though the Motorex darkened quite a bit the actual % of loss wasn't too bad.

 

[Winston]

This is a funny thread. Not too many speculations about why Mobil and Redline change color. I would bet it is some additive. When you look at Castrol VOA's (Especially GC) there is pretty much nothing in it. Maybe it is the Moly that changes color since Redline and Mobil have quite a bit of moly in them.

 

[JAG]

So much for me not posting in this thread anymore.
craigq, sorry I didn't take any pictures. I still have the anodized aluminum cups that I used and some of them have some nasty varnish on them but I don't know which test went with which cup at this point. That was a cool link you posted and those metal cups they used happen to look just like mine. Great article!

Winston, your guess about moly playing a role in the darkening could be right since that is one of the commonalities of Redline and Mobil 1 SuperSyn.

Somebody asked how I knew it was additives darkening and not the basestocks. The answer is that some darkening of certain oils occured without any change in viscosity occuring and very low level of thermal abuse. Oxidation of basestock increases its viscosity, so that rules out oxidation as the cause of darkening so that leaves only the additives that could have darkened. Further heating at much higher temps or much longer time would cause further darkening AND viscosity thickening, indicating that oxidation of basestocks had occured.

 

[savvy]

Hmmm......how do I see this thread ?!

quote:

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I see this question brought up all of the time and want to put it to rest.

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I think right there the heading could have been worded differently. Right out of the gate, you sound like your the final authority on the subject and no one should challenge your word. You could have said for example : I have been conducting experiments to determine why Mobil 1 darkens more so than many other motor oils. I am a scientist and a test program manager who conducts tests and analyses data. >>> This gives you credibility
Then you would go on from there describing the test procedures and results. You would then take questions and let everyone make up their own mind as to the validity and relevance of your test and data..... after all this is BITOG, we are curious and skeptical by nature.

Let's see.......moving on....

quote:

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This thread's main topic and finding isn't up for debate. I hate to break it to you that way but the sooner you know it, the better off you are.

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No need to beat up on poor Alan partner. He was simply offering his experience with M1

Let's face it, you drew 1st blood.

quote:

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No need to get immature and sarcastic now. Go do some tests yourself and until then you have nothing to offer just as your first post has nothing to offer. Keep that cognitive part of your brain working. No need to get emotional, waste our time, and ruin the informative value of this thread.

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I won't even comment on that one.

GMorg, Alan wasn't being arrogant........he was simply defending himself.

That's my contribution to this thread.

 

[ScottB]

Two things:

In my motorcycles, using a 1500 mi OCI (with new filter) my M! comes out black! Always assumed it was "cleaning better"

Arco Graphite was a great idea except for one thing: graphite xtals are nice and smooth and slick on their face - but they're like little plates, and it's the EDGES that are sharp and can cause damage. Unfortunately, in an engine, you can't keep those xtals all in a nice flat position, and problems occur.

It was a bloody mess to clean up too - graphite is awfully hard to clean up.

Scott