Rear axle delete

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@HangFire
good info. Thanks!

wonder if it's the same part the guy in the SMA video (posted earlier) replaced? I need to watch that video again while not watching TV.
I think he was working on an AWD system but externally looks like the same part as my 4WD. Same company as well. ...

It is not. number 8 is the pinion bearing in the diff behind the vicious coupling, when he looks up inside the front of the housing in the video part 2, number 8 is in there.
 
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First thing to check is the lube level in the diff. With the miles on it, it isn't worth replacing stuff, but a driveshaft delete maybe in order
 
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I will update.
Friend and I were going to lift the car tomorrow but he was not feeling well and I don't want to catch anything so it may have to wait.
Curious minds want to know, what have you learned in the past 10 days since your last post in this thread?
 

OilUzer

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Curious minds want to know, what have you learned in the past 10 days since your last post in this thread?

nothing new. lol
it's a spare car parked with a battery charger connected.

Plan is to lift the car this coming Saturday with my friend ... I have a stethoscope and will update.

@andyd
I've checked both rear diff and xfr case fluid and they looked clean and good. I had changed both not too long ago.
 

OilUzer

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@javacontour

Update:

We lifted the car and put it on jack stands and considering the unibody design, specific and limited number of jack points, not being a real mechanic, using only one floor jack, etc. it was a little bit of fun.

I verified the noise was coming from the part that sits right behind the rear diff. Eric from the South Main Auto Repair/Channel calls it viscous coupler. Refer to the video in post #2 by @ctechbob and later by @javacontour. Dealer called it 4WD Coupler.

We have 4 or 5 dealers within 15-40 miles. I called my only favorite dealer and the first thing the service dept guy told me was not to spend that kind of money on it ... He said the part should be about $1400 (he didn't do a computer check) and the repair cost would be $2500-$4000 depending on what's wrong ...
Eric (South Main Auto Channel) said $1400-1500 for the part but I think his video is 6 years old. i.e. the price could be even higher now.

now that we confirmed the source of the noise, I went back and carefully watched the video without interruption and paid attention ...

1- The car in the video is AWD and mine if 4WD. But I think it's the same problem even though the noise that Eric is describing (that the customer is experiencing) is different that mine ... It's the same part and location and the diff between awd and some 4wd can be somewhat foggy these day. So the odds are that it's the same part that is failing.

2-
Eric said in the video, "if I can do it, so can you". Wrong! lol
That guy is pretty resourceful and knowledgeable. I enjoyed watching that video. I'm sure he was talking to real mechanics or at least a half mechanic with lots of tools.
I seriously doubt any "city mechanic" would be willing to do the job. I'll have to ask them to watch the video and then try to repair (assuming it's the same problem), order parts, car sitting in their busy "city" shop for a few days ... It will be cheaper to buy the part at that point. As I mentioned before, all the shops I contacted, referred me to the dealer. Maybe I should find a small city or shop like someone suggested (backwoods shop?).

3- another big thing that reconfirmed my initial thinking (post #1) at the end of the video, Eric was going to give the car back to the owner (while waiting for parts) with the coupler and drive shaft removed. He said that she can drive it in 2WD for a few days ... Not sure if they experienced any issues (e.g. any engine lights, etc.) or not. I am going to read the comments in that video just in case ... But that's what my original intention was. Something quick and cheap to keep the car as a 2WD. We have an AWD and 2 other 4WD cars including my Tundra so I don't mind losing the 4WD option on this car. Maybe we can just remove the rear diff (not the coupler) main gear from the housing (pumpkin) and seal it back . Not sure how difficult that is. As long as 4wd is not engaged or no slip is detected, the coupler and rear diff and the drive shaft are free spinning via the rear tires and removing the rear diff gear should stop the rotation. If slip is detected once in a while, the coupler and xfr case will engage momentarily and will make a little noise. I'm just thinking out loud ...

Removing parts and making it a 2WD is still on my list.
If I can find a reliable part and keep it all under $2000 is an option but I like the idea of removing parts for under $500 and making it a 2WD if my research shows that besides losing the 4WD, there will be no other safety implications. I

Ayways, I need to do more research and decide.

Thanks everyone (including Eric at South Main Auto Channel) for all the help and info!
 
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Did you also watch the second part?



He discusses that the only real thing that happens when you disconnect the drive shaft is that it throws an AWD code.

He also shows the part numbers for the bearing and seal. Something like $60-80 in parts as I recall.

SKF Bearing# 6008-2RSJ
National Oil Seals # 710682

You could probably fake out the AWD computer and substitute a resistor of the appropriate value (IE Measure the resistance of the coil) and the computer would be none the wiser and keep the light off. Just wouldn't want to push the button as it likely sends battery voltage straight to the coil and it would burn up a smaller resistor. If you wanted to remove the unit and not have to see the caution light.
 
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OilUzer

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If the light is the only thing, I don't mind that. I have odbii reader and once in a while I've been reading or checking all our cars. One little false 4wd light or abs light or an engine light won't bother me none.

if I do what he removed in that video and be able to get away with it, my mpg should go up also. Secondary benefits. lol
 

OilUzer

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Did you also watch the second part?



He discusses that the only real thing that happens when you disconnect the drive shaft is that it throws an AWD code.

He also shows the part numbers for the bearing and seal. Something like $60-80 in parts as I recall.

SKF Bearing# 6008-2RSJ
National Oil Seals # 710682

You could probably fake out the AWD computer and substitute a resistor of the appropriate value (IE Measure the resistance of the coil) and the computer would be none the wiser and keep the light off. Just wouldn't want to push the button as it likely sends battery voltage straight to the coil and it would burn up a smaller resistor. If you wanted to remove the unit and not have to see the caution light.


just watched the 2nd video. Thanks

Noticed the Kia in the video has a 2 piece drive shaft (CV Shaft) and pretty sure mine is a one piece but will double check.

After watching the 2 videos, I don't think I will be able to find a patient and reliable mechanic to do all that. Not even sure if I can trust any backwoods (unknown to me) mechanic to pull that off without potentially any other major issues and within the budget. Considering that my problems could be somewhat different than this video.

It would have been a fun project if I had all the tools and facility ... but having someone else do it correctly and within the budget (less than the parts cost) maybe challenging.

Not sure how many hours did Eric spend on this but multiply that with $150-200 plus parts and we could be more than half way there! We are talking about a $1400 part.

the other option:
Remove the front half of the coupler and the drive shaft like he did which should be an easy task ... then drive for a few days to make sure there are no other issues besides the 4WD light (remember the cars are not %100 identical) ... Then make a plate to cover the remaining part of the viscous coupler (still attached to the rear diff) or use the removed and gutted half (with the hole sealed or welded) to cover back ...
lose some weight and reduce friction in the process and improve the mpg.

Forgot to mention that over the last few years the mpg has gone from 25-26 mpg combined (I don't do any major city driving or traffic) to 23 mpg which I attributed to my new Micheline tires. I Read some online
reviews regarding the mpg hit with this particular winter tires. However, lately the mpg has gone down to 19-20 mpg. Winter hit plus tires hit don't add up to the ~6 mpg drop! most likely the viscous / 4WD coupler has something to do with it as well.
 
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just watched the 2nd video. Thanks

Noticed the Kia in the video has a 2 piece drive shaft (CV Shaft) and pretty sure mine is a one piece but will double check.

After watching the 2 videos, I don't think I will be able to find a patient and reliable mechanic to do all that. Not even sure if I can trust any backwoods (unknown to me) mechanic to pull that off without potentially any other major issues and within the budget. Considering that my problems could be somewhat different than this video.

It would have been a fun project if I had all the tools and facility ... but having someone else do it correctly and within the budget (less than the parts cost) maybe challenging.

Not sure how many hours did Eric spend on this but multiply that with $150-200 plus parts and we could be more than half way there! We are talking about a $1400 part.

the other option:
Remove the front half of the coupler and the drive shaft like he did which should be an easy task ... then drive for a few days to make sure there are no other issues besides the 4WD light (remember the cars are not %100 identical) ... Then make a plate to cover the remaining part of the viscous coupler (still attached to the rear diff) or use the removed and gutted half (with the hole sealed or welded) to cover back ...
lose some weight and reduce friction in the process and improve the mpg.

Forgot to mention that over the last few years the mpg has gone from 25-26 mpg combined (I don't do any major city driving or traffic) to 23 mpg which I attributed to my new Micheline tires. I Read some online
reviews regarding the mpg hit with this particular winter tires. However, lately the mpg has gone down to 19-20 mpg. Winter hit plus tires hit don't add up to the ~6 mpg drop! most likely the viscous / 4WD coupler has something to do with it as well.
Not that I want to speak for him, but if it is the same/similar piece, and the same problem, you could probably ship it to someone like @clinebarger or one of the other mechanics on here and they'd do it for a fair price. It is a heavy piece, but I'd imagine it would fit in a USPS flat-rate box.
 

D60

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Not that I want to speak for him, but if it is the same/similar piece, and the same problem, you could probably ship it to someone like @clinebarger or one of the other mechanics on here and they'd do it for a fair price. It is a heavy piece, but I'd imagine it would fit in a USPS flat-rate box.
Funny, I had the exact same thought last night. I almost offered to do it but I'm so far behind I really shouldn't take on any more random projects ATM

Still, I'd have to think OP could find an indy locally who's willing to think out of the box.

EDIT: contact 4wd shops who do some custom fab and gear installs. Seriously.
 

D60

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Also OP stress to whomever you speak that this is really nothing more than replacing a sealed bearing. That's all it is.

If they're not willing to watch the SMA vids they're probably not the shop for you. I understand time is $ but I believe you never stop learning
 

OilUzer

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Also OP stress to whomever you speak that this is really nothing more than replacing a sealed bearing. That's all it is.

If they're not willing to watch the SMA vids they're probably not the shop for you. I understand time is $ but I believe you never stop learning

Big city shops are busy and not hungry.

called a famous trans shop and was told we only do the front ... for rear diff call this shop. I called that shop and was told we have to order parts from dealer and you should take it there. Another shop same story.
I don't think I can make anyone watch any videos.

Funny story, I took the car to one shop and the guy was sitting at his desk and they had an empty garage bay with lift. I asked if we can lift the car and quickly determine where the noise is coming from. He said they don't work on Hyundai. I said we just want to listen with stethoscope and no need to "work" on it or fix it and it should take less than 15-20 minutes and I'll pay $100. He said no, we only work on Acura and Honda (iirc) and haven't had any other cars in the shop for the past 15 years!

Once friend and I lifted the car, it took me under 5 minutes to figure out where the noise is coming from.
People are keeping their used cars and big city shops are busy and not very friendly. I understand that. They are all business and no time to chat or hey can you go watch this video tonight ... they think I'm crazy or something! lol
 

D60

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Big city shops are busy and not hungry.

called a famous trans shop and was told we only do the front ... for rear diff call this shop. I called that shop and was told we have to order parts from dealer and you should take it there. Another shop same story.
I don't think I can make anyone watch any videos.

Funny story, I took the car to one shop and the guy was sitting at his desk and they had an empty garage bay with lift. I asked if we can lift the car and quickly determine where the noise is coming from. He said they don't work on Hyundai. I said we just want to listen with stethoscope and no need to "work" on it or fix it and it should take less than 15-20 minutes and I'll pay $100. He said no, we only work on Acura and Honda (iirc) and haven't had any other cars in the shop for the past 15 years!

Once friend and I lifted the car, it took me under 5 minutes to figure out where the noise is coming from.
People are keeping their used cars and big city shops are busy and not very friendly. I understand that. They are all business and no time to chat or hey can you go watch this video tonight ... they think I'm crazy or something! lol
Unbelievable. If you wanna ship it to CO I'll do what I can. We do run the risk that the bearing isn't identical and/or the method of assembly varies since we are talking Kia vs Hyundai....but we should be able to get numbers off the bearing and seal. If not, we can just take measurements of bearing and go searching that way.
 

OilUzer

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Unbelievable. If you wanna ship it to CO I'll do what I can. We do run the risk that the bearing isn't identical and/or the method of assembly varies since we are talking Kia vs Hyundai....but we should be able to get numbers off the bearing and seal. If not, we can just take measurements of bearing and go searching that way.

Thank you. I will consider that option.

I usually need a few days or sometimes several days for things to sink in and decide what to do next. I prefer to keep the 4WD mechanism under normal conditions but need to figure out the risk/reward/headache/time/effort/cost/etc. ratio and make a final decision. Next several days are very cold and I ain't working on no cars!

My wife says get rid of it. Some didn't notice the noise when I asked but we don't feel comfortable selling it without disclosing the issues. That's one reason selling it is my last option for now. I'm basically thinking 4WD or 2WD? and need to make a final decision.
 
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OilUzer

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Update everyone :
@ctechbob
@javacontour

I figured or guessed that if the 4WD/Viscous coupler is running free with no load (driveshaft disconnected), maybe it won't make any or much noise ... also this (removing driveshaft) would be step 1 before removing the coupler so why not do this first and see what happens. Also the benefits of not removing the viscous coupler I assumed were:
a) not getting any 4WD engine light.
b) the gear inside the coupler (connected to rear diff) won't be exposed to elements and I won't need to make and attach a cover plate.

I disconnected and removed the driveshaft. Not an easy task without lift and the right tools. for example my breaker bar was too long and has a fixed head (i.e. no rotating/swivel head) and not much room there with car on jack stand. I used my powerful Makita impact wrench and broke an impact swivel socket with pieces flying and hitting my forehead and drew a little blood. lol
Wear safety glasses boys and girls. I was ...
The bolts are 10mm and about 3" long plus threadlocker and 17 years of accumulated rust. not easy to remove if you don't have much room and crawling under the car. Bought a shorter & nicer breaker bar and used some PB blaster penetrating oil (Kroil is also on my shopping list now) and still had to yank pretty hard ...

Results after 1 full tank of gas:
  • Car is very quiet now.
  • There are no engine light or 4WD light. Car is happy and doesn't know the driveshaft is gone since all electronics wiring are on the 4WD coupler which is still attached to the car.
  • Gas mileage (combined city/hwy) with this tank went up 5mpg to about 24.x mpg.
  • if I press the 4WD button (coupler engages), I hear a a faint scraping sound. You have to be on a quiet street to hear it.
I am going to drive it like this and see what happens. Evidently with the load being gone, the coupler bearing is not making any noise. Maybe it will eventually fail (tbd) because it is still turning (via rear diff) with no load. If it starts making noise in the future, i can remove the viscous coupler and go from there. Either buy more tools and repair it myself, or have it repaired or permanently remove and cover the exposed half of the coupler with a plate and forever 2WD ... who knows by then the car may have other issues and I can then decide. This car has been part of the family for 17 years and we will eventually be sending it to a senior retirement community (i.e. Junkyard) ... Good news is that it gives me more excuses to buy more tools that I don't really need. For example I now want a right angle impact wrench even though I may never use it.

Warning:
If you are buying a used 4WD car, you could be paying for a 2WD. Bend over and make sure the car has a driveshaft. lol :eek::alien:

Thanks again everyone for the help and the videos!
 

OilUzer

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I have another question.

Watching the SMA #1 video, Eric had a Hyundai TSB and said that the viscous coupler is lubed and filled for life ... However, when he removed the part, it looked dry inside.

Curious if the part is lubed or filled? I didn't see any fluid in his video.

If there is a magnetic coupler in there, can it be filled with fluid?
I will try to find the TSB and see if it says "filled" or just "lubed". Meanwhile I thought some of the experts here may know.

Thanks
 
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