Real-time exposure of the challenges of EV use

[michaelluscher]

I'm sorry the EV isn't meeting your rental needs
You booked it knowing it was an EV, or did you try for a deal and got stuck with it?

You and GON both got sent out the door with less than 80% charge, which IMO is unacceptable

Hotels and lodging should really pick up the pace with having ANY type/speed of charger available for the EV driver
This forum has taught me I must be the only person happy with the Chevy Bolt
I drive my '22 EUV 1LT all around NYC M-F 8-4pm
I guess in this fleet setting, having EV designated parking and charging facilities makes it work

There is some personal accountability here
You rent an EV, you should be planning ahead
Downloading apps, creating accounts
Checking if where you stay/play/visit has EV infrastructure
Not doing that at this point in history seems like a personal issue IMO
Hopefully in time, one won't have to plan as much

This isn't the first thread I've seen that goes
Person rents EV unprepared
Person doesn't understand or plan for EV limitations
Person is unhappy with EVs

 

[JeffKeryk]

This forum has taught me I must be the only person happy with the Chevy Bolt
I drive my '22 EUV 1LT all around NYC M-F 8-4pm
I guess in this fleet setting, having EV designated parking and charging facilities makes it work

Well, lotsa people love 'em around here. I rode in my next door neighbor's new one yesterday. Beautiful display, CarPlay, etc. Back seat was a little crowded. They are on their 3rd Bolt lease and 4th EV. The 1st was the Rav4 EV that was a joint effort between Tesla and Toyota.

 

[PandaBear]

I'm sorry the EV isn't meeting your rental needs
You booked it knowing it was an EV, or did you try for a deal and got stuck with it?

You and GON both got sent out the door with less than 80% charge, which IMO is unacceptable

Hotels and lodging should really pick up the pace with having ANY type/speed of charger available for the EV driver

This forum has taught me I must be the only person happy with the Chevy Bolt
I drive my '22 EUV 1LT all around NYC M-F 8-4pm
I guess in this fleet setting, having EV designated parking and charging facilities makes it work

JHZR2's rental was a last car take it or leave it at the terminal, he took a chance and unfortunately didn't work out. Ideally, there would be other cars, but in this scenario he would probably be better off getting a Turo and have an owner drive the car to him at the airport (not sure if it is possible last minute, I only tried it way ahead of time). That 25% charged EV is best left for someone who wants a car for a short distance to/from the airport and stay a night immediately after arrival.

NYC all day is probably not a problem consider the miles are not that much, perfect for EV or hybrid honestly. Driving from an airport out to rural area or suburb far away, I'd be a bit careful. I got rental cars with less than full tank all the time (sometimes only 25%), they just told me I can bring it back empty. I don't think they would add extra effort to EV as time is money and they would send the car out if someone want to rent it uncharged.

 

[dogememe]

This forum has taught me I must be the only person happy with the Chevy Bolt

Not at all. The Bolt is an EXCELLENT vehicle for its intended purpose and it's a fantastic value in terms of total cost of ownership and cost per mile. I almost bought one and I'm sure if I'd bought one I'd love it. My friend has a Bolt EUV and before that a Bolt EV. He loves it!

However, it's not ideal for a rental fleet where long distances may be driven and exacerbated by it being delivered to OP with a low state of charge.

 

[PimTac]

I'm sorry the EV isn't meeting your rental needs
You booked it knowing it was an EV, or did you try for a deal and got stuck with it?

You and GON both got sent out the door with less than 80% charge, which IMO is unacceptable

Hotels and lodging should really pick up the pace with having ANY type/speed of charger available for the EV driver
This forum has taught me I must be the only person happy with the Chevy Bolt
I drive my '22 EUV 1LT all around NYC M-F 8-4pm
I guess in this fleet setting, having EV designated parking and charging facilities makes it work

There is some personal accountability here
You rent an EV, you should be planning ahead
Downloading apps, creating accounts
Checking if where you stay/play/visit has EV infrastructure
Not doing that at this point in history seems like a personal issue IMO
Hopefully in time, one won't have to plan as much

This isn't the first thread I've seen that goes
Person rents EV unprepared
Person doesn't understand or plan for EV limitations
Person is unhappy with EVs

You should read the OPs original post to get the correct story.

 

[JHZR2]

So are the political manipulations on oil products. I'm sick of getting bent over by all of it. There's no reason why fuel should cost 3 times what it did 3 years ago. That's all by controlling production to benefit the ***** that control our economy. They lost control of it when demand dropped during Covid. It took a bit for them to reign it in and bend us over again. I'm over the BS no matter where it's targeted.

I know the solution but I can't get into politics here.

Agree. Please keep politics and related decisions being pushed on the public out of this thread (and really off BITOG as they tend to go the wrong way).

This thread is intended to show a real life case use of EV, particularly because objective evidence and experience is needed amidst the claims that it’s so easy to charge.

 

[JHZR2]

I would be far more eager to jump on the Hybrid bandwagon, than the EV or bust bandwagon. At least your range is not so limited.

Range on my hybrid is way further than any other vehicle I own. That includes diesels with large tanks.

The PHEV version would be even better.

If you want range, go hybrid. Idling ICE is stupid and wasteful, as is a lot of low speed low old operations.

 

[JHZR2]

+1

I'd be on-board with a hybrid. If we are talking least amount of footprint possible how about a diesel hybrid that runs on veggie oil?

Veggie really only makes sense to be switched over once warm, and switched back before stopping. BTDT in grad school. Lots of folks do it wrong and ruin good diesels.

I think a diesel hybrid would be a good idea, but the stop-start energy penalties might be hard to overcome compared to the thermal efficiency over long distances. For heavy trucks it probably would work well. Instant 100% torque at 0 RPM electric, high thermal efficiency, etc. But the complexity is tough, and the emissions systems on diesels just makes it harder and costlier. Plus, most personal vehicle use isn’t really well-suited in terms of drive profile.

I think a hybrid 3500 series pickup would be interesting. Thing is, they’re exempt from CAFE, and they’re so $$$ that if you can afford one you can afford the fuel.

 

[dogememe]

Range on my hybrid is way further than any other vehicle I own. That includes diesels with large tanks.

The PHEV version would be even better.

If you want range, go hybrid. Idling ICE is stupid and wasteful, as is a lot of low speed low old operations.

Hybrid really is brilliant. The RAV4 Prime is insanely good and the new Prius Prime is fantastic as well. Too bad GM gave up on hybrids. 3rd gen Volt in the size and shape of an Escape or Terrain, WOOF, I'd buy one. Ford just said they're going to increase production of the hybrid F-150 as F-150 Lightning demand is weaker than expected.

 

[JHZR2]

I'm sorry the EV isn't meeting your rental needs
You booked it knowing it was an EV, or did you try for a deal and got stuck with it?

You and GON both got sent out the door with less than 80% charge, which IMO is unacceptable

Hotels and lodging should really pick up the pace with having ANY type/speed of charger available for the EV driver
This forum has taught me I must be the only person happy with the Chevy Bolt
I drive my '22 EUV 1LT all around NYC M-F 8-4pm
I guess in this fleet setting, having EV designated parking and charging facilities makes it work

There is some personal accountability here
You rent an EV, you should be planning ahead
Downloading apps, creating accounts
Checking if where you stay/play/visit has EV infrastructure
Not doing that at this point in history seems like a personal issue IMO
Hopefully in time, one won't have to plan as much

This isn't the first thread I've seen that goes
Person rents EV unprepared
Person doesn't understand or plan for EV limitations
Person is unhappy with EVs

Guidance from the rental car agencies is to bring them back >75%. Not full. Im bringing mine back at >25%, but it will be what it is, because I don’t have the time or interest to sit and charge again. It’s not really on me to pay it forward to 100%, frankly, instead I’m going to make a big stink at hertz to ensure they log it as 25% and find a way to charge it.

This was a work rental. I didn’t have a choice. So some expectation of what you think Im supposed to do is frankly, irrelevant. I have no obligation to “prep” for anything when I rent an economy car and expect an economy car. Once I purposely rented a Tesla. And I looked for chargers on the tablet as soon as I got in. I even plugged it in for a few hours at home. It was more of a novelty thing to do that rental. All EV rentals I’ve had have been inconvenient because of the time wasted charging. That’s really the long and short of it.

It’s a fine car. Just poorly executed in terms of prepping by Hertz, by charger finding capability by GM (Tesla shows all the chargers and it’s one of the easier functions in their otherwise poorly executed tablet controls).

 

[JeffKeryk]

Hybrids can make sense for a lotta people. Our RX450h gets great gas mileage. It is also AWD, which can make all the difference in certain weather conditions around here.
The problem I have with them is, they are sorta 2 drive trains in 1 vehicle. The simplicity and ease of ownership of an EV is more set it and forget it. No services, no gas stations, just get in and go.

Each have their own place. I would like to test drive the new Prius. Toyota has hybrids down to a science. Gotta wonder about dealer mark ups; that's the only think that scares me.

 

[demarpaint]

Hybrid really is brilliant. The RAV4 Prime is insanely good and the new Prius Prime is fantastic as well. Too bad GM gave up on hybrids. 3rd gen Volt in the size and shape of an Escape or Terrain, WOOF, I'd buy one. Ford just said they're going to increase production of the hybrid F-150 as F-150 Lightning demand is weaker than expected.

Hybrid is a brilliant idea, the problem is the push for all EV makes pursuing and investing in hybrids a losing proposition. Some companies might budget a small amount of $$ in the technology but they can't risk the possibility of getting left behind in the EV push. It's a tough position to be in. Maybe the lesson learned will be a costly and memorable lesson. Time will tell.

 

[alarmguy]

Not at all. The Bolt is an EXCELLENT vehicle for its intended purpose and it's a fantastic value in terms of total cost of ownership and cost per mile. I almost bought one and I'm sure if I'd bought one I'd love it. My friend has a Bolt EUV and before that a Bolt EV. He loves it!

However, it's not ideal for a rental fleet where long distances may be driven and exacerbated by it being delivered to OP with a low state of charge.

Honestly I would love one for a second car. The big thing to me right now stopped any thought process is the redesign in 2024/
My wife's second car goes nowhere and the Bolt would be an around the town car. We use my SUV for almost everything including towing a boat and she works from home. Her car a Mazda truly is a second car in every sense of the word and perfect for use as a Bolt might be.

True story, I changed her oil two days ago, LONG overdue, been busy, neglectful do to a move to a new state 6 months ago. Had a lot on our plate but I also knew the mileage wasnt much. Anyway, first oil change in 14 months. The Mazda was driven 3,500 miles in those 14 months. Having a Bolt in the driveway or garage in this type use seems to make perfect sense. Zero maintenance and should last forever.

 

[JHZR2]

Not at all. The Bolt is an EXCELLENT vehicle for its intended purpose and it's a fantastic value in terms of total cost of ownership and cost per mile. I almost bought one and I'm sure if I'd bought one I'd love it. My friend has a Bolt EUV and before that a Bolt EV. He loves it!

However, it's not ideal for a rental fleet where long distances may be driven and exacerbated by it being delivered to OP with a low state of charge.

I don’t disagree it’s a good vehicle.

I’m not driving it long distances. 70 miles each way isn’t really “long”.

The bolt has a number of features and setups that IMO are superior to Tesla.

I’m not an EV hater either. They’re just lousy for use beyond homebody use.

 

[dogememe]

Hybrids can make sense for a lotta people. Our RX450h gets great gas mileage. It is also AWD, which can make all the difference in certain weather conditions around here.
The problem I have with them is, they are sorta 2 drive trains in 1 vehicle. The simplicity and ease of ownership of an EV is more set it and forget it. No services, no gas stations, just get in and go.

Each have their own place. I would like to test drive the new Prius. Toyota has hybrids down to a science. Gotta wonder about dealer mark ups; that's the only think that scares me.

This is what bothers me the most about hybrids, the complexity of an ICE vehicle PLUS all the EV components as well. Adds weight, complexity, and difficult to package nicely.

BUT at the same time, if you drive your PHEV mostly on electricity, there really isn't much maintenance. At least for a Volt, assuming you plug it in and use it as it's intended, that's an oil change every 2 years, brakes pretty much never, and transmission fluid every 100K. The biggest cost is the three-cooling-system-flush requiring dealer or a knowledgeable shop with the correct hardware and software to do the coolant bleed procedure that's supposed to be done every 5 years.

For traditional hybrids, let's say a Prius, Escape Hybrid, etc. there is pretty much comparable maintenance vs a regular ICE only car. Meanwhile brakes last 2x-3x as long and maybe less frequent oil changes.

 

[JHZR2]

Hybrids can make sense for a lotta people. Our RX450h gets great gas mileage. It is also AWD, which can make all the difference in certain weather conditions around here.
The problem I have with them is, they are sorta 2 drive trains in 1 vehicle. The simplicity and ease of ownership of an EV is more set it and forget it. No services, no gas stations, just get in and go.

Each have their own place. I would like to test drive the new Prius. Toyota has hybrids down to a science. Gotta wonder about dealer mark ups; that's the only think that scares me.

EVs have extraordinarily complex systems, and parts counts that rival ICE when you consider the actual parts in a battery.

Your claims are based upon the honeymoon stage still. Bearings will still fail. Cooling systems will still need service. Brake systems need service, rubber suspension parts will go bad, AC will leak in time, plastics degrade, solid state power electronics have limited life under load/voltage. Tires.

I just have to laugh at the concept that a few oil changes is that hard. Kind of like the fallacy of charging being exposed here. My HEV goes 14k miles per OCI per OLM. One 30 minute stint at a charger to get say 100-200 miles, is a total waste of time. 30 minutes at a gas station is six or more charging visits. And that’s at slower NJ stations that have an attendant. In 30 minutes of elapsed time at a gas station in my hybrid is 4000-5000 miles.

And I’ve paid my proper share of road tax, unlike scenarios where EV home charging doesn’t.

 

[y_p_w]

JHZR2's rental was a last car take it or leave it at the terminal, he took a chance and unfortunately didn't work out. Ideally, there would be other cars, but in this scenario he would probably be better off getting a Turo and have an owner drive the car to him at the airport (not sure if it is possible last minute, I only tried it way ahead of time). That 25% charged EV is best left for someone who wants a car for a short distance to/from the airport and stay a night immediately after arrival.

I'm pretty sure that they have the ability to charge EVs in the garage or lot. It would be folly to not have that capability. However, the OP's situation sounds like a recent return that had just been prepped and there was no time to do that. I've received vehicles with less than a full tank and was told I'd either have to wait an hour or just take it that way.

An EV would likely be fully charged overnight. And it would be a logistics issue to make sure that there's enough on-site charging to meet their needs. I've also seen this with gasoline powered rentals. Some consolidated rental car centers have their own fueling, but a lot of these companies end up using fleet cards at local gas stations. One Hertz rental I got with a 5/8 full tank was a neighborhood location about a block away from a few gas stations, and even then they didn't fill it up. It's all these things that take time away. They have to clean them up for the next customer, but often they try to save time by delivering without a full tank, or now without a reasonable full EV charge.

 

[dogememe]

I don’t disagree it’s a good vehicle.

I’m not driving it long distances. 70 miles each way isn’t really “long”.

The bolt has a number of features and setups that IMO are superior to Tesla.

I’m not an EV hater either. They’re just lousy for use beyond homebody use.

I agree they are idea for people that don't stray far from home. Which is, let's face it, a large percentage of people. In your case, not a good choice, plus you got the car at 20% state of charge. Rental car agency screwed you over on this one

From a cost per mile perspective Bolt is the cheapest good vehicle IMO. Plus they're cheap used. I saw a 2017 Bolt Premier for $16.5K at a local Chevy dealer this week. Now that I can charge at home, I ALMOST traded in my Volt on it. But I didn't like the color. If the Bolt had 100Kw charging I would have overlooked the color and just gone for it.

 

[oil pan 4]

I guess you're the 1% of drivers then. I understand not wanting to be inconvenienced by the occasional public charging, but for the amount you can subsidize that by charging at home cost per mile is lower and not by a small margin including cost of the vehicle. Per month cost of the Tesla including payment and insurance with home charging is less than my GTI for the same costs and fuel and that doesn't include the less than cheap scheduled service costs. I love the car and wouldn't get rid of it except for another GTI, but it's part of ownership. At least for me it would be much cheaper to use the Tesla with occasional public charging with my 300 mile stints, but I just don't want to be a jerk and steal my wife's car from her. I do drive it enough to offset my fuel use for local runs. It honestly wouldn't be a big deal for me to use her car if I wasn't gone 2-3 days at a time twice a week.

Quite the hypocrite statement then. Sure, kill the EV subsidy. I agree with that. Kill all of them, including your precious fuel subsidies. Otherwise leave it for both if you must have it.

I drive a Nissan leaf and never public charge. I like the 2 cents a mile driving cost. And it won't be taking it or any other electric vehicle on a road trip unless it's on a trailer.

 

[JHZR2]

I'm pretty sure that they have the ability to charge EVs in the garage or lot. It would be folly to not have that capability. However, the OP's situation sounds like a recent return that had just been prepped and there was no time to do that. I've received vehicles with less than a full tank and was told I'd either have to wait an hour or just take it that way.

An EV would likely be fully charged overnight. And it would be a logistics issue to make sure that there's enough on-site charging to meet their needs. I've also seen this with gasoline powered rentals. Some consolidated rental car centers have their own fueling, but a lot of these companies end up using fleet cards at local gas stations. One Hertz rental I got with a 5/8 full tank was a neighborhood location about a block away from a few gas stations, and even then they didn't fill it up. It's all these things that take time away. They have to clean them up for the next customer, but often they try to save time by delivering without a full tank, or now without a reasonable full EV charge.

I’ve said this earlier in the thread but will reiterate.

My first EV rental was a Tesla from a neighborhood hertz. It was a fun thing because the kids wanted to roll take a trip in one. It was on the location’s charger. It was NOT fully charged because of the Tesla software. Not because of the charger. But it was a small level 2 charger.

I’ve gotten Teslas multiple times at airports. They’ve never been fully charged. The rentals have been fine because the Tesla maps show charger locations. The time wasted charging before returning the car has been a major waste every.single.time.

Without MW of capability and a lo of big chargers, rental car agencies couldn’t top up a fleet of EV quickly.