What did the pre-purchase inspection show?
Rattle on startup
- Thread starter Zdos123
- Start date
Nothing at all, sticking brakes, bit of corrosion on the subframe (it's a miata) and some general trim wear, but generally in quite good condition, i love the car in every way it's just this rattle, i don't mind the rattle, i just need to figure out wheter it's terminal or it's got a good 30-40k miles left in it.
If the PPI showed no major issues, how will you prove the seller was hiding a major problem at the time of the sale?
The UK law works in the manor that if there is any issue in the first 6 months it is automatically the dealers responsibility unless it's blindingly obvious that it was caused by me and UK courts are incredibly consumer centric. This obviously does not include wear and tear items, but a faulty timing chain tensioner or rod bearings do not count as wear and tear items on a 90k car, this information is all obtained from a family member who is a relatviely senior UK lawyer.
Sounds like most chain DOHC cars I have owned - after just one year of ownership. Multiple marques, multiple decades.
Chain driven cams can be sensitive to oil grade and more importantly filters. I would try a different brand of filter, one that does NOT advertise high efficiency. Since many filter are NOT assembled in country of origin of the marque, they are all suspect. Especially Thailand and China and Mexico.
If your Mazda filter is a Tokyo Roki - fabriqué au Japon - I cannot, and have not found fault with that manufacturer.
My race motorbikes always had a horrendous startup rattle - right out of the box.
Ony my Honda fit Sport 1.5 had no racket. It dod not have VVT and it employed a ratcheting TC tensioner that did not- and could not pull off when shut down.
I don't think the sky is falling - maybe just a bit of finessing is in order
- Ken
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2025
Sounds like startup rod knock to me.
Good thing the dealer just phoned me and agreed to take all responsbility and that they are going to send it to an engine specalist to get properly looked at, just had to use legal threats and bad reviews.
I see no oil pressure during the racket on you second video - but you don't let the video play longer. Rod noise will be evident at transition from load to no load.
And are these not shim under bucket solid tappets? Noise persists until the cam box is flooded and car is warmed.
I wish my new Subaru were this quiet
You may just be being played with with the "motor specialist" carrot dangle. Beware.
It seems I am late to the party - but if the rattle started when you changed the oil, I would change the oil filter again. Possibly ADBV isn't working/ defetive??
Whenever something starts when I do something, I try to "undo" that something to see if it goes away.
It is only on startup, it is completly absent during any other driving, all the way up to 7k and around when on track, these do have solid lifters afaik, looking at other MX5s in the UK owners clubs i can't see any others making this noise, which is what's so baffling, i saw one video kinda similar for an s2k with a spun bearing but it was a lot louder.
I also made it perfectly clear to them that if the noise was still apparent i would be proceeding legal action and that i would like invoices and evidence of any work completed to which they agreed, from what i understand this was the dealer manager, he seemed genuinally very apologetic.
I did but it just stayed the same, mazda oem now and it's quieter than it was but it hasn't fully gone away, it could have been there before but i was just espically aware after the oil change as i'd only owned the car for a month at the point and before i had a 3 cylinder volkwagen which made so many weird noises, all of which were normal.
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2025
Cool. Please Keep us updated on it.
Well, are you using a a Tokyo Roki Japan filter or not? You will have noise with NO OIL PRESSURE at startup on a chain car.
So why no retained oil ? Could be faulty Anti drain back flapper in the filter - which are £6 commodity parts. Also could be a leaky or clogged pickup or lastly worn bearing inserts - which should show a low idle pressure or a flickering lamp.
I don't understand the road this is going down so hastily , but no problem have a master engine builder take a listen.
You may be overreacting. Hard to tell from thousand of miles away.
So why no retained oil ? Could be faulty Anti drain back flapper in the filter - which are £6 commodity parts. Also could be a leaky or clogged pickup or lastly worn bearing inserts - which should show a low idle pressure or a flickering lamp.
I don't understand the road this is going down so hastily , but no problem have a master engine builder take a listen.
You may be overreacting. Hard to tell from thousand of miles away.
I could be overreacting, i just know these engines are very resiliant apart from a tendancy to develop rod knock on the 1.8l engines, i've seen so many on the owners groups now it's getting tiring, the mazda filter is the one you mentioned as far as i can remember, i'll keep this chat updated when the dealer gets back to me so anyone looking at this down the line has some idea.
not knowing the particular features of your engine, but just by reading your first post I was thinking it sounds like a hydraulic timing chain tensioner that bleeds down when parked and takes a certain amount of time to pump itself up after a startup. You could probably drive it forever that way would be my opinion... My older Ford Expedition had the same problem, ( I dont really think it is a problem, its just a noise) and I never did anything about it and it ran 150k miles after I bought it that way.. so my advice would be to let it develop untilf it gets to the point where the noise doesn't go away.
I would do that but my issue is that if i leave it and it develops into a problem (rod knock is my main concern, if it is timing chain chatter i don't care, but i can't get a decisive opionion on what it actually is) it falls on me for responsibility, if chase the dealer up under UK consumer protection law now then it's done for free and i don't have to worry that i might need an engine rebuild or something, if i'd owned it for more than 6 months and it started making this noise i'd just send it and deal with it but because i'm legally entitled to get it fixed i'm going to fight tooth and nail for that.
I'm not familiar with your consumer protection laws... so that part is up to you... in the USA just about anything purchased used if it is more than a couple years old doesn't have anything in the way of a warranty, essentially buyer beware.. anyway you look at it all the repair people can do for a rod knock assuming it is one would be at minimum replace the offending connecting rod bearing or at maximum replace the crankshaft and all the bearings.. wouldn't necessarily mean a full rebuild... it is worth saying rod knocks don't usually occur at low engine speed or go away after engine startup and can be induced by rapidly revving the engine and letting off the gas pedal... rod knocks tend to occur at higher engine speeds because there is enough play in the offending device to not be able to keep up with the changes in direction of the reciprocating assembly whereas if its just a rattling on startup that goes away after the engine warms up it is almost certainly something to do with either hydraulic lash adjusters or valve lifters ( assuming it has them) or some sort of slop in a hydraulically tensioned timing chain setup.
Timing chain components would be considered wear and tear. I don't think you have a case against the dealer. They know that and are avoiding your calls. I would not imagine a dealership being profitable if it has to warranty for 6mos anything - when the car was good sold should be all they are responsible for.
Well they just called me back to claim all responsbility, what you think a dealer should be responsible for is different from what a dealer actually is responsible fot, you can't tell me you wouldn't take the opputunity to get it repaired for free if you could.
