Rant - Hate modern air filters!

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Originally Posted By: addyguy
With Chris142's rant on cars he hates, thought I would bring up a huge pet-peeve of mine: modern 'airboxes' and the filters used in them.

I had a 1985 Buick Skyhawk (TBI), and a 1986 Honda Civic (carb) that had nice, round 'pieplate' air cleaners on top of the engines. Just unscrew the centre tab, remove a couple of clips, lift the lid off, and then easily pop the air filter out. The round air filter itself had a nice solid frame around it, and could be held up and inspected with ease.

On most modern cars, you have an 'airbox' that the air filter is in, and you usually have to undo some weird clip, and the 'separate' the two halves of the box to get at the air filter. The halves usually do NOT come apart easily, so you have to wrestle furiously with it, and try to get the air filter out w/o ripping or crushing it. When you DO get the air filter out, it is sometimes a very flimsy thing, with open pleats that flap about.

Then, after you put an air filter back into the airbox, you have to get the two halves of the airbox back together, which again is a wrestling match, and you never really know if they are together properly, b/c the airbox is often sideways, or tucked down low...

Finally, the price! AF's on the two cars I mentioned were about $3-4 a peice. I replaced the one on the Skyhak every oil change, it was no big expense. But, as many know, modern panel air filters can be $30-$60 easily for some. I fell 'lucky' that the one for my Tribute is only $12...but stil, getting to it is a hassle.

Why can they not make small, round pie-plate air filters again that go on top of the engine, and get ducted to the TB, like modern 'air boxes'? Those round air claners can be made to seal just fine, I never had dirt problems with the two cars mentioned above...is anyone out there with me????


Yessiree. +1
 
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Then there is my rant ..... those eco friendly cartridge oil filters that replaced the good old spin on kind .... basically forcing you to go to the dealer for an oil change.



On GM's those cartridge filters are right on top and are so much easier and cleaner than spin ons. What kind of car make has a cartridge that is harder to change than a spin on?
 
The cartridge filter on our Toyota (3.5L V6 2GR-FE) seems like it was intentionally designed to discourage DIY maintenance. Almost impossible to take off if it's over torqued, located underneath the engine at an angle so it's impossible to take off without oil dribbling down the outside of the cartridge housing (even AFTER you use the inconvenient drain plug on the bottom of the housing). In comparison, our other vehicle with a cartridge filter (2.2L GM Ecotec) is a breeze to change, filter right on top of the engine, no mess, no fuss.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
try the VW 2.5L 5-banger engine & 2.0T (ea113) air filter... dumbest design created by German engineers.....


I'm guessing it's something like the chore that was the replacement of the air filter for my 1991 Audi 200 Turbo?
 
I have a 2000 Mazda 626 that I have to take off the top of the airbox along with the big hose going into the intake in order to get the filter out. Huge pain.

I also have a vintage 1987 Honda Civic (yes carb like the op) and it is a simple wing nut to get at the filter. However the oil filter position on top of the engine leaves a bit to be desired!
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Chris Meutsch
Agreed. My friend's 2003 Infiniti G35 coupe's filter is nearly impossible to get out easily.


The G37 coupe's two filters are dead easy. If you want a nightmare, try it on my 1991 Audi 200 Turbo. A bunch of the turbo plumbing has to be removed, along with the airhorn and the headlight, and some miscellaneous fuel line brackets. Then you can open the clips, and reach in through the headlight slot and wrench the old filter out, tearing it. The new one slides in not too bad. Then you put everything back together. To actually properly open the air filter box all the way, you would have to undo the motor mounts on the passenger side and take off fuel lines. It's a good one hour job the "shortcut" way that I described. That includes me dropping a screw into my turbo and fishing it out with a magnet.


Maybe this is what set the precedent for high dealer prices for air filter changes - once upon it was justified for the work involved. I know for my Mercedes it'll take 30-60 minutes. The only good news is that it's every 40k as there are two large filters. My other cars have those awkward boxes but still it's done in a few minutes with those.
 
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
The cartridge filter on our Toyota (3.5L V6 2GR-FE) seems like it was intentionally designed to discourage DIY maintenance. Almost impossible to take off if it's over torqued, located underneath the engine at an angle so it's impossible to take off without oil dribbling down the outside of the cartridge housing (even AFTER you use the inconvenient drain plug on the bottom of the housing). In comparison, our other vehicle with a cartridge filter (2.2L GM Ecotec) is a breeze to change, filter right on top of the engine, no mess, no fuss.


What car is this on?
 
Originally Posted By: rjacket
Maybe this is what set the precedent for high dealer prices for air filter changes - once upon it was justified for the work involved.


Well, there's maybe one positive to having the Audi's air filter so hard to change. At least a DIYer wouldn't be changing it far too often. I only did it once, and it was still relatively clean and serviceable. It got torn on the way out, so that really didn't matter.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
try the VW 2.5L 5-banger engine & 2.0T (ea113) air filter... dumbest design created by German engineers.....


I'm guessing it's something like the chore that was the replacement of the air filter for my 1991 Audi 200 Turbo?


Yep, and it's fragile. Break it by accident, and a new cover/airbox costs around $200.

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I don't see what a big deal it is. If you put on a restriction gauge, you will see that you need to change it ever couple of years in most conditions. Maybe you want to look at it on the other year, just out of curiosity.

Every time you open it you are damaging the seal.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Yep, and it's fragile. Break it by accident, and a new cover/airbox costs around $200.


Ouch. At least the airbox cover on the old Audi isn't fragile. The only way I could damage it would be with a hammer, and getting one in there is next to impossible. My little hands have enough problems getting in there.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
The easiest I have ever come across is on Nissan Maxima 3.0 engine; 10 second to take it out and 10 second to put a new one.

You would need to be more specific, Nissan used numerous different 3.0L design V6 engines in the Maxima.

1 1985-1988 (VG30E) SOHC iron block V6 1 throttle body with a timing belt. A boxy FWD car with TRON and Knight Rider inspired stuff. 155-160HP Last Maxima sold in the USA with a station wagon option
2 1989-1994 (VG30E) 165HP 2 throttle bodies, but everything else on the engine was the same as the 85-88. A car with all body parts curved.
3. 1992-1994 (VE30DE) 190HP Optional engine in the Maxima. DOHC with a timing chain and variable valve timing. Iron block
4. 1995-1999 (VQ30DE) 190-195HP Aluminum block DOHC engine. Timing chain, No variable valve timing. This Maxima is curved on all sides, except the trunk.
5. 2000-2001 (VQ30DE) 222HP also called VQ30DEK, like the previous car, but some restyling. This engine has a timing chain and variable valve timing.
 
Sorry, I should have qualified it. My experience is limited to the 5th generation Maxima, VQ30DEK engine. Literally, two clips to unsnap and the filter comes out.

 
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Some FWD GM's are a real pain. I forgot which models but I hate them.


My 2003 Impala requires me to remove one of the diagonal struts in the engine compartment, but other than that not too bad--I have dealt with worse.
 
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
Quote:
Some FWD GM's are a real pain. I forgot which models but I hate them.


My 2003 Impala requires me to remove one of the diagonal struts in the engine compartment, but other than that not too bad--I have dealt with worse.


No it doesn't, I have the same car. remove the intake tube from the engine, and slide the lid and tube assembly out of the way.

I work on cars for a living and the only filter that takes longer than 30 seconds to change is on a chevrolet HHR.
 
Originally Posted By: aussiek2000
I work on cars for a living and the only filter that takes longer than 30 seconds to change is on a chevrolet HHR.


Try a 1991 Audi 200 Turbo. You couldn't do it in under 30 seconds without a stick of dynamite.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak


Try a 1991 Audi 200 Turbo. You couldn't do it in under 30 seconds without a stick of dynamite.


Never worked on that particular car. I have worked on nearly ever y GM, Chrysler, Ford, KIA, Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai from 1995 and newer.
 
Originally Posted By: aussiek2000
Never worked on that particular car. I have worked on nearly ever y GM, Chrysler, Ford, KIA, Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai from 1995 and newer.


Trust me, 30 seconds won't cut it. Most vehicles I've worked on have been easy as pie to change the air filter. Not on one of those, though. The manual recommends to take it to the dealer, and even the official service manual doesn't touch the procedure.
 
Hardest air filter change I've run into is in my cousin's 2001 Mustang SVT Cobra. It's wedged in between the right front fender and near headlight bucket. Has a band clamp that's difficult to loosen and move out of the way. One end of housing goes to cold air intake. Tabs have to be lined up perfectly to re-assemble. Took 2 hours the first time. Now I'm down to under 30 minutes.

How do the quick change lube shops upsell an air filter change on these cars and have you on your way in 20 minutes?
 
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