Raced 94 Corvette-Amsoil 5w-30 UOA

[sidney004]

Amsoil 5w30, 6000 Miles(Approx), 1 year Drain Intreval, Amsoil sdf23 oil filter, make up oil 3 quarts, car was track driven for 8 road racing events (1.5 - 2 hours wide open throttle per event) Oiled Foam Air Filter Analysts, Inc in Oakland, CA performed test, sampled during oil change, please comment, tests indicate high Ni,Al,Fe,Pb,Si, T/S Vol%.Please comment on the Ca,Zn,P levels, they do not seem consistent with prior Amsoil used oil analysis. Vechicle has 56,000 miles, have used Amsoil 5w30 for last 20,000 miles for 6 years exclusively. Switched to Amsoil 10w30.
Fe-94ppm,Cr-5ppm,Ni-18ppm,Al-34ppm,Sn21ppm,Ag-.1ppm,Ti-1ppm, Si-30ppm,B-3ppm, Na-28ppm,K-10ppm,Mo-11ppm,P-1309ppm,Zn-1958ppm,Ca-3554ppm,Ba-10ppm,Mg-427ppm, Sb-10ppm,V-1ppm,Fuel%Vol-1%,T/SVol%-2,Water%Vol-.1,Vis [email protected],Sae Grade-40,TBN(D2896)-6.14

 

[Patman]

You're right, the ZDDP and calcium numbers do look a bit higher than is typical of Amsoil, although it could be an older formulation.

What were your lead numbers by the way? (pb)

 

[sidney004]

Missed that one! Pb-111ppm
Also oil temps during track events are around 280degF

 

[Patman]

It looks to me like you've got the makings of a coolant leak there (both sodium and potassium are present in significant amounts), which in turn is causing the very high wear metals. Silicon is high too, so you've probably got an air leak too. I would highly recommend getting the services of Terry Dyson to interpret this report for you as he would know for sure what to recommend and he could save you big bucks:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/terry.html

[ May 26, 2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Yeah does not look good, Terry is your man. I'd get in touch with him, yesterday!

 

[Pablo]

Not the oil for a racing Corvette with some engine issue. Amsoil ASL (I assume) doesn't have much Na and K in the virgin state.

Did they run a gycol test?

Look at the water and the Si and the total solids.....yes the oil thckened (but NOT that bad) in these abusive conditions - and the wear metals went through the roof, but this is a result of microexplosions at the bearing surfaces due to coolant/water in the oil. Look at the Antimony (Sb)

Yes Terry can help. Also, run some old fashioned diagnostics.

 

[buster]

Yeah, something is going on. These high wear numbers are normal though for this type of driving. We are used to seeing daily, day to day driving, not road racing. Someone posted a used oil analysis of some NASCAR type race and the wear #'s were near 1,000 ppm...forget exactly what it was.

 

[Bobert]

Wouldn't a 50wt. (or at least a 40wt.) oil be appropriate in this application?

Maybe a racing oil such as Royal Purple, Synergyn, or Redline? I would probably change the oil after 3 or 4 events. Maybe 8 events are too much for one OCI.

[ May 26, 2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Bobert ]

 

[sidney004]

No glycol test performed. Spoke to Analysts, Inc, they told me that the threshold for K and Sb is 10ppm, My levels were below that point. They felt that the normal TBN level precluded bearing corrosion and did not seem to think that there was a coolant leak. I appreciate any furthor input.

 

[buster]

I'd say you need a thicker oil to start. Maybe a Redline, Series 2000 20w-50/Mobil 1 15w-50, or Synergyn. But again, I bet a lot of used oil analysis would look like this under these conditions. Agree?

[ May 26, 2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Pablo]

Well the threshold may be 10 but still worth checking. The solids are super high. Si at 30 is not low and the metals, yes, through the roof.

Can I ask - who told you this is a race oil? T

I think 6K was too long for essentially a race vehicle. The oil thickened, but NOT that much and indeed the TBN hung in there.

8 races that lasted 1.5-2 hours is a LOT of racing for any oil. I think whatever oil you go with set the race limit lower.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I'd say you need a thicker oil to start.

---

A little bit thicker would help, but so would an oil cooler. If he's seeing 280 degree temps, that oil is thinning out a lot, so a good oil cooler should drop him down to 230-240F. So that alone would be like stepping up in viscosity since his current oil wouldn't thin out as much at the lower temps.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

How come every time there is a bad "Amsoil" UOA there is always an excuse...

 

[Pablo]

Jason - excuse for what?

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Excuse for the poor UOA numbers...

N/M you didn't get the irony. Just being s/a, giving some a dose of their own medicine

 

[Pablo]

You are right, sorry I didn't get it...

I think I'm going to "mellow back" on saying what you did AND making excuses...I just want to learn.

I mean:
What would other oils have done in these race conditions?
How long of OCI is practical and wise for such conditions?
Is there really a coolant control issue?
Why the water if the elements are just incidental?
Would a thicker oil really have been better?
Would a Mo oil have been better?
Sure these wear numbers are really nasty but are we just spoiled by street conditions?

Are questions excuses??

 

[427Z06]

Hey...how about trying some Motocraft 5w20? It's posted more great used oil analysis than just about any other oil on this forum.

 

[buster]

quote:

---

Hey...how about trying some Motocraft 5w20? It's posted more great used oil analysis than just about any other oil on this forum

---

No way. That oil would break down real quick. For these types of conditions, you definitely need a strong group IV V. Like I said above, most racing used oil analysis will look bad. We are not used to seeing them on here.

My choices again would be in no order: S2k 20w-50, Red Line 5w-40, Mobil 1 15w-50, Synergyn of some sort. Maybe GC.

 

[427Z06]

Buster, I was being facetious.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Yes, some were excuses...

, not that there isn't a ligitimate "excuse" sometimes. That was my point too. There may even be some in this case!