R1234yf problems?

C

Chris142

Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
30,553
Location
Apple Valley, California
We sure are getting a lot of calls from people with newer cars (2-3 yrs) with R1234 refrigerant and ac problems.

We do not have that machine so we have to send those jobs down the street. That shop gets $175 to evac and $15oz!

Anyone else seeing failures with the new refrigerant?
 
r1234yf seems to be a nightmare. I have avoided buying a car with r1234yf. I think in the near future we will see these cars being operated with inop. AC due to the exorbitant cost.

Last I checked there are a few new cars out there that still use R123a.

I like R134a
I love R12
I avoid r1234yf
 
R134a retrofit for R1234yf for the win!
If you see instructions on how to do it, download it immediately before it gets censored!
Not that I would have any personal experience doing this; all my cars use r134A from the factory.

It's just common sense that something that operates at much higher pressures is going to have more (mostly leakage related) problems.
 
Seems like we go through these painful episodes each time changes are made for environmental reasons. Eventually, the issues get resolved. I recall some of the same problems when manufacturers switched from R-12 to R-134A. Also, noteworthy are water saving toilets, low flow showerheads, "spillproof" gas cans, R-410A for home HVAC systems, etc. I'm sure a few of you can name a lot more such tales. We have all had opportunities to be early adopters whether we choose them or not!
 
I've been lucky so far with my 2016 Wrangler, it blows ice cubes. Way better than my R12 E-150 ever did or my R134a Liberty did. I have read stories about people evacuating the R1234yf systems and using R134a with good results. Although it's a no no.

I would imagine in time the cost of the refrigerant will come down, the process to charge up the system thanks to the EPA is costly. IIRC a repair shop has their hands tied. They have to recover the R1234yf, vacuum check the system, fix leaks if there are any, then recharge the system. I heard the EPA says it is illegal for a shop to top it off w/o recovering the refrigerant and leak testing the system. Insane if you ask me.
More about it:
The recovery and recycling procedures on 1234yf machines are basically identical to R-134a machines. The only differences that you will notice are:
  • When beginning to charge your system the recovery machine will do a vacuum hold test that will go for around two minutes. If the vacuum holds then we move onto the next step. If it doesn’t hold then check for leaks in your system.
  • Once we have passed the vacuum test the recovery unit will deliver a fifteen percent charge to the system. This is known as a ‘precharge,’ of the system.
  • While this is going on the tech will be prompted to start the blower motor on low, grab his leak detector, and then check the front evaporator inside the car for any leaks.
  • After giving it some time to check for leaks go back to your recovery unit and alert it if you found a leak or not. If your vehicle has a dual system then you will also need to check your rear evaporator for leaks as well.
  • If the leak detector did not trigger any leaks with the fifteen percent charge in the system then the recovery machine will go ahead and put the rest of the refrigerant back into the system.
  • After the system has been fully charged, disconnect your lines, and reseal the valves just like your normally would.
  • Some of you may be groaning at the extra steps when compared to R-134a. Well, with all things, there is a reason why these are performed. The fifteen percent precharge and leak detection step is key to catching a leak on your vehicle before it has been fully charged. If we catch the leak early while the charge is still low we can save loss of refrigerant, save your shop some cash on that refrigerant, save the customer money, and also prevent further damage to the environment. It’s a win win for all involved.

  • The last sentence is their comments not mine.
 
The Giulia has 1234yf and it works well. But, I will say that the compressor needed to be replaced due to a leak. Can’t say if it was somehow due to 1234yf (can’t see how) or just a premature failure of the compressor.
 
By the time most cars need any 1234yf, when cars with it are as widespread as 134a cars, the price will come down more. The price is the least to worry about with that stuff

zzyzzx said:
Doesn't matter because you are going to need more parts to hold in higher pressure, since it will leak more often.
Click to expand...

I thought 1234yf operated around the same pressure as 134a
 
Chris142 said:
Last year the 10lb cyls were $900. $539 now
Click to expand...
Honeywell and Chemours, formerly DuPont hold the parents for HFO refrigerants. It’s basically a cartel and the only places in the world that are making the new R-1234yf and R-1234yo(for stationary HVAC and refrigeration) are in Louisiana and Texas. There is also a plant in China that got commissioned by Honeywell.

R-134a and the rest of the HFCs are no longer patented and supply is present worldwide, with most of it coming from China or the US.
 
A friend of mine has a rather new GTI with r1234yf in it. He had to get his A/C recharged a couple months back. The car is 1 1/2 years old, with less than 18k miles on it. Luckily for him, it was covered under his warranty.
 
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