R.I.P. Police Officer Melvin Santiago

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Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: 29662
I don't understand the hero worship that many people have for police given their conduct nowadays. I have personally witnessed police officers assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves. And then be defended by other "good" police officers. They (police) are given far too much power in this country; and they wholeheartedly abuse it knowing they are immune from legal repercussions. He knowingly took a dangerous job, he knew the risks, as did his family.

Statistically speaking Americans are 29 times more likely to be murdered by a police officer than by a "terrorist"..

They have become more of a problem than the "criminals".. Their behavior engenders ditrust of themselves, the law, and society.

He (the PO) should be mourned as a human being, not because of his position.


You personally witnessed police officers (you say plural) assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves.... What happened when you reported these occurrences? I'm sure you wouldn't let your fellow man be robbed and assaulted without at least notifying any of the federal or state or local agencies that investigate these matters. Who did you report it to? There would be a case number, Internal Affairs number, event number....please, do tell.

You are a troll. You throw something like that out and you will nothing substantial to back it up. Except your unverifiable comments.

By the way, you knowingly get in a car and drive every day, full aware of the dangers that could be awaiting you. So if you, someone you know or someone you love, were hop in a car today and be killed form one of those dangers; so be it. You/they knew the risk and accepted it when you/they turned the key. Doesn't quite sound right, but that is your sentiment portrayed with different actors.



I stand by what I said. Your attempt at belittlement of my statement is pathetic and tragic. I have witnessed things done by cops that could be prosecuted as war crimes in a different setting. NOTIFY the authorities... Is that a joke, they are all butt buddies. I called internal affairs one time to report an officer whom I witnessed stealing a gun. The reply from the attending officer was that it was not possible because he personally trained that officer while he was at the police academy and he was sure that would never happen. Lesson learned. In my opinion all police departments should be subject to civilian review boards. You obviously have no idea how the real world works. Cops give themselves a bad name by acting in such an unprofessional manner. I give no more deference to a police officer than I would to any other person on the street. Quite the opposite, in my experience they are nearly all crooked and backed by the system they protect.

For the record I'm squeaky clean, and have the FFL to prove it.
 
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Originally Posted By: lawman1909
But the real message is that LE, Fire, EMS, Military all are faced with so much more danger than anyone else in society. I think it is disgusting when someone is murdered, especially someone in the field of public safety, and military.


Well, in terms of fatalities, that's not really true either. http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfar0029.txt

Table 1. Number, rate, and index of relative risk for fatal occupational
injuries in 15 high-risk occupations, 1997


Occupation(1)... Fatalities... Employment...Rate/100,00...Risk Index
...................................................(x 1,000)


All occupations........ 6,218.... 130,810..... 4.7 ..... 1.0

Timber cutting and
logging
occupations................... 121..... 94..... 128.7..... 27.4
Fishers.......................... .. 58 ..... 47..... 123.4 .....26.3
Water
transportation................. 49........ 52..... 94.2....... 20.0
Aircraft pilots................. 100 ..... 120 ..... 83.3 ... 17.7
Extractive
occupations...................... 75..... 145..... 51.7..... 11.0
Construction
laborers........................... 333 ..... 811..... 41.1..... 8.7
Taxicab drivers................ 100..... 248..... 40.3..... 8.6
Truckdrivers.................. 857..... 3,075..... 27.9..... 5.9
Roofers.............................. 55..... 200..... 27.5..... 5.9
Farming
occupations.................. 615..... 2,177..... 27.5..... 5.9
Firefighters..................... 49..... 268..... 18.3..... 3.9
Laborers, except
construction.................. 208..... 1,323..... 15.6..... 3.3 ..
Material moving
equipment
operators..................... 169..... 1,125..... 15.0..... 3.2
Police and
detectives.................... 156..... 1,113..... 14.0..... 3.0
Electricians................... 94..... 774........ 12.1.......2.6
 
First of all, not insulting vets at all. Thank them every chance i get. However, and maybe on my part not explained enough is that both military and LE attempt to keep peace, order, gov't, etc.
 
Wow, this was probably the last thread I would think would go sideways like that. Not much class by some on here. This would have been the perfect time to remain mum if you didn't have anything nice to say.

R.I.P.
 
I didn't say fatalities... I said danger. Danger does not mean death lol In 2011 over 55,000 LEO's were assaulted. Now compare that to any other career and it is likely that only military will be higher. But no one besides police, fire, ems, run towards sounds of terror in our society except for the few brave civilians. And 1997? Are you serious? Thats almost 2 decades old. Lol Cheers brother
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Your logic is lazy and without experience to expect a human to act logically and without emotion within a few hours of learning your partner was killed.

Her emotional response would have likely been the same if a "thug" killed her husband. Replace police with "thug".

I fail to see how you expect someone to be calculated and without emotional immediately following the death of your significant other.


My logic is sound and based upon the premise. Cold yes, but sound. Rationalizing hate you may or may not want to believe is not logic. If the actors were changed in such a way as I changed them in my previous retort, I highly doubt you would defend those very same words (different actors) to anyone.

Now you have gone to "likely" answering what her emotional state would have been if it were somebody else who had killed the man. Let me break it down, my logic is based upon the premise presented by the actual author of the statement. Your logic is based upon supplanting emotion onto the author to defend your experiences and beliefs, whether factual or not.
 
Originally Posted By: 29662
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: 29662
I don't understand the hero worship that many people have for police given their conduct nowadays. I have personally witnessed police officers assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves. And then be defended by other "good" police officers. They (police) are given far too much power in this country; and they wholeheartedly abuse it knowing they are immune from legal repercussions. He knowingly took a dangerous job, he knew the risks, as did his family.

Statistically speaking Americans are 29 times more likely to be murdered by a police officer than by a "terrorist"..

They have become more of a problem than the "criminals".. Their behavior engenders ditrust of themselves, the law, and society.

He (the PO) should be mourned as a human being, not because of his position.


You personally witnessed police officers (you say plural) assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves.... What happened when you reported these occurrences? I'm sure you wouldn't let your fellow man be robbed and assaulted without at least notifying any of the federal or state or local agencies that investigate these matters. Who did you report it to? There would be a case number, Internal Affairs number, event number....please, do tell.

You are a troll. You throw something like that out and you will nothing substantial to back it up. Except your unverifiable comments.

By the way, you knowingly get in a car and drive every day, full aware of the dangers that could be awaiting you. So if you, someone you know or someone you love, were hop in a car today and be killed form one of those dangers; so be it. You/they knew the risk and accepted it when you/they turned the key. Doesn't quite sound right, but that is your sentiment portrayed with different actors.



I stand by what I said. Your attempt at belittlement of my statement is pathetic and tragic. I have witnessed things done by cops that could be prosecuted as war crimes in a different setting. NOTIFY the authorities... Is that a joke, they are all butt buddies. I called internal affairs one time to report an officer whom I witnessed stealing a gun. The reply from the attending officer was that it was not possible because he personally trained that officer while he was at the police academy and he was sure that would never happen. Lesson learned. In my opinion all police departments should be subject to civilian review boards. You obviously have no idea how the real world works. Cops give themselves a bad name by acting in such an unprofessional manner. I give no more deference to a police officer than I would to any other person on the street. Quite the opposite, in my experience they are nearly all crooked and backed by the system they protect.

For the record I'm squeaky clean, and have the FFL to prove it.

Your mother's a troll!!!


Lets walk this back then, please annotate the claim of the statistic above. That is a readily available fact you can easily prove.

I must say, you have some amazing experiences. Watching cops (plural) rob and assault people, steal guns, etc... After seeing all of this plus the new addition to your claims of other actions that would be "war crimes" in another setting, you seem remarkably stable. I mean, it's ok to be a 12 year old and throw my mother into the mix but the butt buddy comment? I'm sure that is not cool with whomever on the board happens to be gay.

Again, you can show me to be the aXX by referencing your statistic. Go for it. If not you are indeed a troll....not your mother BUT YOU!
 
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: 29662
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: 29662
I don't understand the hero worship that many people have for police given their conduct nowadays. I have personally witnessed police officers assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves. And then be defended by other "good" police officers. They (police) are given far too much power in this country; and they wholeheartedly abuse it knowing they are immune from legal repercussions. He knowingly took a dangerous job, he knew the risks, as did his family.

Statistically speaking Americans are 29 times more likely to be murdered by a police officer than by a "terrorist"..

They have become more of a problem than the "criminals".. Their behavior engenders ditrust of themselves, the law, and society.

He (the PO) should be mourned as a human being, not because of his position.


You personally witnessed police officers (you say plural) assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves.... What happened when you reported these occurrences? I'm sure you wouldn't let your fellow man be robbed and assaulted without at least notifying any of the federal or state or local agencies that investigate these matters. Who did you report it to? There would be a case number, Internal Affairs number, event number....please, do tell.

You are a troll. You throw something like that out and you will nothing substantial to back it up. Except your unverifiable comments.

By the way, you knowingly get in a car and drive every day, full aware of the dangers that could be awaiting you. So if you, someone you know or someone you love, were hop in a car today and be killed form one of those dangers; so be it. You/they knew the risk and accepted it when you/they turned the key. Doesn't quite sound right, but that is your sentiment portrayed with different actors.



I stand by what I said. Your attempt at belittlement of my statement is pathetic and tragic. I have witnessed things done by cops that could be prosecuted as war crimes in a different setting. NOTIFY the authorities... Is that a joke, they are all butt buddies. I called internal affairs one time to report an officer whom I witnessed stealing a gun. The reply from the attending officer was that it was not possible because he personally trained that officer while he was at the police academy and he was sure that would never happen. Lesson learned. In my opinion all police departments should be subject to civilian review boards. You obviously have no idea how the real world works. Cops give themselves a bad name by acting in such an unprofessional manner. I give no more deference to a police officer than I would to any other person on the street. Quite the opposite, in my experience they are nearly all crooked and backed by the system they protect.

For the record I'm squeaky clean, and have the FFL to prove it.

Your mother's a troll!!!


Lets walk this back then, please annotate the claim of the statistic above. That is a readily available fact you can easily prove.

I must say, you have some amazing experiences. Watching cops (plural) rob and assault people, steal guns, etc... After seeing all of this plus the new addition to your claims of other actions that would be "war crimes" in another setting, you seem remarkably stable. I mean, it's ok to be a 12 year old and throw my mother into the mix but the butt buddy comment? I'm sure that is not cool with whomever on the board happens to be gay.

Again, you can show me to be the aXX by referencing your statistic. Go for it. If not you are indeed a troll....not your mother BUT YOU!


If I'm a troll then you are undoubtedly a SHILL!!!
 
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Your logic is lazy and without experience to expect a human to act logically and without emotion within a few hours of learning your partner was killed.

Her emotional response would have likely been the same if a "thug" killed her husband. Replace police with "thug".

I fail to see how you expect someone to be calculated and without emotional immediately following the death of your significant other.


My logic is sound and based upon the premise. Cold yes, but sound. Rationalizing hate you may or may not want to believe is not logic. If the actors were changed in such a way as I changed them in my previous retort, I highly doubt you would defend those very same words (different actors) to anyone.

Now you have gone to "likely" answering what her emotional state would have been if it were somebody else who had killed the man. Let me break it down, my logic is based upon the premise presented by the actual author of the statement. Your logic is based upon supplanting emotion onto the author to defend your experiences and beliefs, whether factual or not.


OK. Is the victim's stepfather a bigot?
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Your logic is lazy and without experience to expect a human to act logically and without emotion within a few hours of learning your partner was killed.

Her emotional response would have likely been the same if a "thug" killed her husband. Replace police with "thug".

I fail to see how you expect someone to be calculated and without emotional immediately following the death of your significant other.


My logic is sound and based upon the premise. Cold yes, but sound. Rationalizing hate you may or may not want to believe is not logic. If the actors were changed in such a way as I changed them in my previous retort, I highly doubt you would defend those very same words (different actors) to anyone.

Now you have gone to "likely" answering what her emotional state would have been if it were somebody else who had killed the man. Let me break it down, my logic is based upon the premise presented by the actual author of the statement. Your logic is based upon supplanting emotion onto the author to defend your experiences and beliefs, whether factual or not.


OK. Is the victim's stepfather a bigot?


This is a very specific argument....you will need to supply a whole lot more than that for a reasonable answer. Who is the victim? Who is the stepfather, and what exactly did the victim's stepfather say?

The fact that this has gotten to the resort of bringing ones sexual preference and ones mother into the fray, as we as me being an apparent [censored] into the picture, doesn't show you anything? I find it hilarious that under the context here, so many are a-ok with those kind of statements. I would have guessed if I were to throw a [censored] slur out there in a different post I'd be banned. But not so in this case?

Because I am LE there is an automatic generalization of me and who I am. I understand it...even tho I am not allowed to do the same thing and generalize. You will probably find it shocking I am very much anti-govt and libertarian in nature. I don't believe in the use of police for revenue generation (tickets) in the name of public safety; I don't believe in the use of red light cameras or plate readers (if you want that type of enforcement to generate money then put a RID in every newborn, don't use ME for your socialist agenda.

But I take whatever on the chin and move on. I stand by my statements that the comments made, in the throws of grief or sitting on a porch in summer sippin lemonade, are still, indeed factually full of hatred.

There has been such an incredible umbrella cast to cover hatred. I myself fully understand the world and how it works. From the way our own govt seeks to keep us down to the hatred of mankind. I've seen it first had, picked up bodies, seen the brain matter splattered over walls because of a $20 bill. You don't find me spewing some nonsense that any LE is great or LE deserves medals or any other recognition. I have been decorated but I'm not a medal kinda guy. It's a job. This next statement you will not understand (unless you have been) but please ponder it. LE = BEST JOB IN THE WORLD, WORST JOB IN THE WORLD.

How you feel about LE or how they act in your area I cannot attest to and I will not try to. No matter what your feelings are; this kid wasn't a cop long enough to be that salty "thief" or "assaulter" or worthy of "war crimes;" [censored], he didn't have enough time on the job to even know who he was inside. It takes a few years.

There sure is a [censored] of a lot of wrong in our nations policing, but you must consider that THEY, THEM COPS!!! Aren't so much THEY....THEY are YOU! Cops come from your society that YOU are a part of and help foster. Like it or not, the human element is inescapable and cops, just like the rest of society tend to fit the model. I believe in the 10% truly are pure people, 10% truly are evil people, and the rest of us are somewhere between those extremes.
 
I did not ask for a story. I asked a simple yes or no question.

The victims stepfather has made several statements in the past 72 hours. Just answer the question or get off your high horse.
 
Aren't anti-govt libertarians also anti-militarization of police forces? I'm not sure red light cams are a big plank in the movement (maybe they complain the loudest?).
 
You personally witnessed police officers (you say plural) assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves.... What happened when you reported these occurrences? I'm sure you wouldn't let your fellow man be robbed and assaulted without at least notifying any of the federal or state or local agencies that investigate these matters. Who did you report it to? There would be a case number, Internal Affairs number, event number....please, do tell.

You are a troll. You throw something like that out and you will nothing substantial to back it up. Except your unverifiable comments.

By the way, you knowingly get in a car and drive every day, full aware of the dangers that could be awaiting you. So if you, someone you know or someone you love, were hop in a car today and be killed form one of those dangers; so be it. You/they knew the risk and accepted it when you/they turned the key. Doesn't quite sound right, but that is your sentiment portrayed with different actors.

[/quote]

I stand by what I said. Your attempt at belittlement of my statement is pathetic and tragic. I have witnessed things done by cops that could be prosecuted as war crimes in a different setting. NOTIFY the authorities... Is that a joke, they are all butt buddies. I called internal affairs one time to report an officer whom I witnessed stealing a gun. The reply from the attending officer was that it was not possible because he personally trained that officer while he was at the police academy and he was sure that would never happen. Lesson learned. In my opinion all police departments should be subject to civilian review boards. You obviously have no idea how the real world works. Cops give themselves a bad name by acting in such an unprofessional manner. I give no more deference to a police officer than I would to any other person on the street. Quite the opposite, in my experience they are nearly all crooked and backed by the system they protect.

For the record I'm squeaky clean, and have the FFL to prove it.

Your mother's a troll!!! [/quote]

Lets walk this back then, please annotate the claim of the statistic above. That is a readily available fact you can easily prove.

I must say, you have some amazing experiences. Watching cops (plural) rob and assault people, steal guns, etc... After seeing all of this plus the new addition to your claims of other actions that would be "war crimes" in another setting, you seem remarkably stable. I mean, it's ok to be a 12 year old and throw my mother into the mix but the butt buddy comment? I'm sure that is not cool with whomever on the board happens to be gay.

Again, you can show me to be the aXX by referencing your statistic. Go for it. If not you are indeed a troll....not your mother BUT YOU! [/quote]

If I'm a troll then you are undoubtedly a SHILL!!! [/quote]

Ok, you got me, I'm a [censored]. But back to the issue raised. Make no mistake, I'm calling you out! I claim what you have stated is pure [censored]! Prove me wrong....just show everyone where your stat came from and I'm stuck eating the rest of it.

I'm gonna help your feeble mind. And I am going straight from my arse!!! Just on common sense. With exception of 911 clearly there would be a greater risk of LE killing you than a CLASSIFIED terrorist, at least on US soil. But you didn't give any parameters or any sense of anything except jumping on the F the police bandwagon. I'm good with it, but I'm still calling [censored] and asking you to man up and prove it or admit you are full of SHXX!!

Sir, If you were merely to say, "I have no trust in the cops." Guess what, I can assume you had some negative experiences and ok I get it, DONE. But you buddy, got internet balls and wanted to embellish. So, show me wrong.
 
dave1251 said:
I did not ask for a story. I asked a simple yes or no question.

The victims stepfather has made several statements in the past 72 hours. Just answer the question or get off your high horse. [/quot

Without posting exactly what statement(s) you refer to it it implausible to give a yes or no and BTW I reserve the right to answer your DIRECT question entirely.
 
Originally Posted By: LazyPrizm
Aren't anti-govt libertarians also anti-militarization of police forces? I'm not sure red light cams are a big plank in the movement (maybe they complain the loudest?).


I believe our constitution is also anti-militarization of police forces. Hence, National Guard duties under certain circumstances? Please clarify your point as it is unclear exactly what you are trying to state.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
I did not ask for a story. I asked a simple yes or no question.

The victims stepfather has made several statements in the past 72 hours. Just answer the question or get off your high horse.


BTW you never answered who the VICTIM is.....We will need to start there. I need to know who you are referring to before I can answer.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Wow, 6 months on the job. What does it say about the society we live in when the murderer is garnering any respect at all, and given a memorial. Shame.


I am not surprised. Read some of the quotes from those interviewed. There is a mistrust of law enforcement officers in Jersey City. Many members on here have posted the same sentiment, referring to peace officers as the largest street gang in the United States.


I honestly wonder how justified it is. How many of them (especially in the corrupt cesspool of New Jersey) ARE crooked?

Quote:
I can understand this point of view look at the remarks of some of the law enforcement in retaliation to the wife's comments. If you act out in retaliation to the emotional words of grieving widow how can I trust that you have the integrity to fulfill your commitment to protect and serve the public.


I truly would not be surprised if, in a few weeks (or months), she is mysteriously tortured, raped, and killed.

Quote:
If you are in the position of serving the people and enforcing the laws of the country you can not be spiteful and should appear to be perfect.


Spot on.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Inspecktor
Unbelievable- I saw the story of the killer's wife wishing he could have killed more cops before he died.


She has since apologized and has said she will love her dead husband until she dies. I do not blame her for being emotional. She met her husband on her high school graduation day and has been with him since.

Her husband on the other hand was very selfish.


How in any way would a widow's grief logically lead her to state she wished more cops (or anyone for that matter) had been killed? That is not being emotional, that statement reveals a pure hatred toward a certain group of people.

I suggest you refocus your thought train and see her comments for what they are, extremely biased and hateful.


You have answered your own post. A young woman who lost her husband and high school sweetheart is not going to be logical in regards to her husband's unexpected death. Having known more than a few young widows I am concerned when they are not emotional.


Yeah...those are the ones who take a bottle of sleeping pills, or slit their wrists in the bathtub, or take a hammer to their children...
 
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: 29662
I don't understand the hero worship that many people have for police given their conduct nowadays. I have personally witnessed police officers assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves. And then be defended by other "good" police officers. They (police) are given far too much power in this country; and they wholeheartedly abuse it knowing they are immune from legal repercussions. He knowingly took a dangerous job, he knew the risks, as did his family.

Statistically speaking Americans are 29 times more likely to be murdered by a police officer than by a "terrorist"..

They have become more of a problem than the "criminals".. Their behavior engenders ditrust of themselves, the law, and society.

He (the PO) should be mourned as a human being, not because of his position.


You personally witnessed police officers (you say plural) assault and steal from those they knew could not defend themselves.... What happened when you reported these occurrences? I'm sure you wouldn't let your fellow man be robbed and assaulted without at least notifying any of the federal or state or local agencies that investigate these matters. Who did you report it to? There would be a case number, Internal Affairs number, event number....please, do tell.


I know someone who made the HORRIBLE mistake of reporting a bent cop. There was no case number...because the guy who took the report was just as dirty! Overnight, his life was DESTROYED. They harassed him, harassed his wife, and a week or so later, they threatened his children. THAT DAY, he uprooted his family, walked away from his house, job, mother, father, siblings, and friends, and fled to (initially) Oregon. He now lives in Vancouver and refuses to ever return to the United States. Basically: reporting a bent cop cost him his house, his marriage, his family, and his country.

Quote:
You are a troll. You throw something like that out and you will nothing substantial to back it up. Except your unverifiable comments.


Pot, meet kettle.

Quote:
By the way, you knowingly get in a car and drive every day, full aware of the dangers that could be awaiting you. So if you, someone you know or someone you love, were hop in a car today and be killed form one of those dangers; so be it.

You/they knew the risk and accepted it when you/they turned the key. Doesn't quite sound right, but that is your sentiment portrayed with different actors.


Absolutely. I have a dangerous job and I have a dangerous hobby, in that I ride a motorcycle. (Note that I am more likely to die on the job than a cop.)
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: dave1251

I am not surprised. Read some of the quotes from those interviewed. There is a mistrust of law enforcement officers in Jersey City. Many members on here have posted the same sentiment, referring to peace officers as the largest street gang in the United States.


I honestly wonder how justified it is. How many of them (especially in the corrupt cesspool of New Jersey) ARE crooked?

Things vary somewhat from one force to the next and I can't speak for Jersey City, but by and large the cops in NJ are mostly good guys. They aren't all the best of the best, of course, and within any group that large there are going to be some very [censored] people, but it seems that by and large our police seem to be trying to make up for the rest of our crummy gov't.
 
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