Recently started using R-444A in place of R-1234YF. I can tell you from experience that the R-444A definitely does a better job at cooling than the 1234YF. It cools fast, gets colder, is less expensive, and it identifies as R-1234YF lol. Anyone else using this in their shop?
R-444A VS R-1234YF refrigerant
- Thread starter Johnny248
- Start date
Just curios - how much cheaper is R-444A - very roughly. I think that is one of the reasons there moving that way correct? R1234YF is crazy priced.
I've been curious since hearing about it being a drop in replacement for yf that's much cheaper, I'm surprised it cools notably better. Even if it was a tad less performant than yf if it's compatible with the pressures and oil so the compressor lasts the same and is way cheaper I'd use it. If it reduced compressor life even by 10% then no that's more expensive and annoying to deal with so I'd rather use the costlier yf. Was the yf system charged properly for a fair comparison.
But hopefully we all transition to mandated robust r290 systems instead. The gov mandated stricter and better built evaporators with 1234yf and I hope they force automakers to build even better stronger future leak proofed components for r290 so there's way less chance of a repair bill. One of the few things the EPA did right, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. I've handled old evaporators even the oem ones are cheaply made it's impressive they last 10-15 years.
But hopefully we all transition to mandated robust r290 systems instead. The gov mandated stricter and better built evaporators with 1234yf and I hope they force automakers to build even better stronger future leak proofed components for r290 so there's way less chance of a repair bill. One of the few things the EPA did right, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. I've handled old evaporators even the oem ones are cheaply made it's impressive they last 10-15 years.
I hadn't heard of R-444A yet, but am intrigued... I came across this site for R-1234yf recently (While shopping for a jug of R-410A) and its the cheapest I've seen it:
https://refrigerantscenter.com/collections/r-1234yf/products/1234yf-1-case-4cans
https://refrigerantscenter.com/collections/r-1234yf/products/1234yf-1-case-4cans
- Direct R-1234yf replacement: no system modifications required—service technicians can transition instantly using existing recovery and charging equipment.
- Superior cost efficiency: more economical than R-1234yf without compromising performance.
- Rapid cooling response: delivers noticeably faster pulldown times for enhanced passenger comfort, even in extreme conditions.
- Regulation ready: meets current global carbon emission standards and aligns with emerging low-GWP mandates.
- Minimal environmental impact & safety: boasts a fraction of the global warming potential of legacy HFCs and contains negligible TFA formation at the same ASHRAE A2L safety classification as R-1234yf.
- Third-party lab tests are said to have confirmed that R444A pulls down cabin temperature approximately 2°C colder than R1234yf and reaches a comfortable 22°C cabin temperature four minutes faster.
It is enough of a cost savings that makes it worth it for sure.
You say it identifies as 1234yf. I'm guessing the recovery machine won't go haywire if it goes in but I imagine future models will detect 444 and dealers doing warranty work like replacing an engine will not evacuate it and maybe deny your warranty. I'd use it on my escalade but gm extended the powertrain warranty to 10y 150k on it so maybe not until that's out. I wonder if the techs found a way to leave the compressor connected and not have it dangle and damage the lines while replacing the engine to cut book time.
It is compatible with the 1234yf machines. The identifier doesn't know the difference. That seems like a lot of extra work that someone is going to do just to try to deny a warranty claim.
I hope shops don't take advantage of customers substituting refrigerant and billing for R-1234YF.
The parts stores, too. Especially if someone sees Freeze YF cheaper than AC Pro.
I am pretty sure this would violate magnusson moss. The AC would have nothing to do with the engine warranty.
They would be obligated to fix the engine. They could evac and refill with R1234Y on there dime I suppose.
Stealers are just like politicians. They're more than happy to trample over our protections that prevent us from getting screwed and exploited. A Dodge Stealer was more than happy to avoid some charger owners warranty simply because he used a non OEM air filter brand a while ago.
I am well aware dealers will make every effort to avoid warranty work, but the air filter is connected to the engine vs the refrigerant is not. I always used OEM filters during warranty on my vehicles for the reason you mentioned.
Most people will be out of warranty long before there AC quits. If it bothers anyone then sticking with 1234YF shouldn't be any problems, just more money.
I have also come to the conclusion, for the reasons you mention, that the warranty is not worth the digital paper its no longer printed on. I don't see any benefit in buying any more new cars. They will be well used going forward, although I did enjoy the 3 new ones I had. Two can play this game.
Thanks for sharing.
I'm sure Dupont will sue it out of existence 
Or somehow patent it and make it proprietary.
Or somehow patent it and make it proprietary.
The idea is to pass the cost saving on to the customer. Don't think it was ever intended to be a shaddy product to cheat customers or increase GP. Also, currently (in my market at least) the cost is ~30% less expensive than 1234yf. That may fluctuate, but it's not like it cost 1/10 of 1234yf. That being said, if customer was going to pay x$ for their a/c service, but are going to receive the benefit of higher cooling capacity and better performance, then they should probably be happy that they received 444a at the same cost as 1234yf.
Options are good. If there are options over time it should drive the price of both products down.
Discussions above well taken. So the R444a is compatible with systems for R1234yf. Can R444a be used to merely top off a system that still has R1234yf in it? Or, would one have to completely evacuate the R1234yf first before recharging with R444a?
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