Quick read on Jalopnik about Tesla

[JHZR2]

Coolant isn’t a high pressure system that sees the same stresses as a combustion engine. It doesn’t even have a change interval, though I will change that at some point too. There is gear oil that I would prefer to replace at 50k and likely will.

The benefit is the long life of the components and the lack of regular fluid changes combined with cheap power.

Actually, systems that don’t see the heat and pressure have greater needs of cleanliness and care, because if the water chemistry isn’t right and inhibited properly, biological growth is possible. That’s far worse. Ask anyone that works real power converter systems or large liquid cooled batteries.

Cheap components really aren’t, and obsolescence issues abound with power converters and solid state devices. These things are still in their infancy.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Lexus, Mercedes, heck even a number of independent dealerships do this for customers for free. This isn't a special Tesla only service. Again you make it sound like Tesla is the only company that provides this service. Did Tesla buy you a pizza, breadsticks, and a 2 liter soda? The VW dealership that I worked for did for a family buying a vehicle, on more than one occasion.

Not sure I said Tesla is the only company that does this. I can say no others did, though. I've purchased several new Lexi and they never came out to my house. But they always offered me a loaner, which is nice. I can't speak to Mercedes because I never bought a new one, only a used one private party.

Curious: What's your personal experience? Which company came to your place, and for what?

 

[JeffKeryk]

There is coolant, right? Brake fluid? Refrigerant? Rubber bushings? Shocks/struts? 90% of what needs to be done on a regular car needs to be done on an EV. Only the obsolescence of power converters and refit of batteries is more complex.

90% depends on how you count. If you count individual services, a simple oil and filter change service adds up pretty fast. If you count like components, then it's much closer. You probably know brake components last longer due to regenerative braking. In the 5 years I owned our '18 Model 3 it was ww fluid, 12v battery and a damaged tire. Oh yeah, and cabin air filter. It was a pain!

Here's scheduled maintenance from Tesla:

• Brake fluid health check every 4 years (replace if necessary)*.
• A/C desiccant bag replacement every 4** years.
• Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years.
• Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter.
• Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first.

 

[Torrid]

Actually, systems that don’t see the heat and pressure have greater needs of cleanliness and care, because if the water chemistry isn’t right and inhibited properly, biological growth is possible. That’s far worse. Ask anyone that works real power converter systems or large liquid cooled batteries.

Cheap components really aren’t, and obsolescence issues abound with power converters and solid state devices. These things are still in their infancy.

It still sees heat, but the system is lower pressure. It's still normal coolant, it just doesn't risk having oil or exhaust gases blasted into it.

I never said the components were cheap, but in the case of the driveline stuff(motors/batteries/associated electronics) it has an 8 year 100k mile warranty. I'm not trying to be a salesman for the company, but this is the reason why I am a buyer. There are cases of failure after warranty of course. There's also plenty of examples of over 200k miles. If I go 200k miles without an issue whatever issue may come up would have been covered by how much I saved in fuel and oil changes. I wouldn't fix the car though, I'd just buy another and trade or sell it if it's the battery at that age. The more I think about it the more I consider checking out on my performance vehicles and just buying a basic Tesla. It's my lowest possible cost overall for a vehicle over 10 years for a new vehicle purchase. My whole schtick with performance cars is childish and I recognize that. I don't need a M3P. I also don't need a GTI with its expensive scheduled service intervals and premium fuel on a tuned ECU. It's just what I like and it adds unneeded cost to my daily transportation, but it's also my hobby.

I'll say what everyone does that has something against EVs/Teslas in general. They're throwaway cars. So are every other car that is basic transportation. The average person isn't going to hang onto a 2023 Ford Explorer for 50 years. They'll get 15-20 years out of it before it becomes cost prohibitive to value to keep it on the road. I'm looking for reliability in general. There are cheaper ways to get to and from work for me than a performance car. The important thing outside of that is that it gets me to work on time and starts/moves when I need it to. It's why I don't risk it with older cars anymore. My employment is solely based on getting to work after a 2 hour call no matter the weather or time of year. There are stipulations once I'm there to continue employment, but that's the base requirement. You aren't going to see me trying to do this long term on a 20 year old vehicle. I don't have a problem with disposing of daily use items when it comes to actually getting use out of them. I'll take care of them and they'll look brand new the whole time I own them. I'll meticulously maintain them and the next person that gets it will have the best possible example of that vehicle at that age, but I'm realistic and I don't want to waste money to keep something on the road as a daily driver longer than it's financially feasible or where the reliability hits a point that it affects my career.

I hope my GTI long after it's my daily is someone's prize classic VW. It would genuinely make me happy to see it live on making some other enthusiast happy. I'm just not the person that has the space or time to toy with it when it's 20 years old. Maybe something will happen in the next few years and I'll buy a bigger property with a bigger garage and I can expand a bit. If I do I could see it being a car I never do sell, but it won't be taking me to work at that point.

 

[Torrid]

Not sure I said Tesla is the only company that does this. I can say no others did, though. I've purchased several new Lexi and they never came out to my house. But they always offered me a loaner, which is nice. I can't speak to Mercedes because I never bought a new one, only a used one private party.

Curious: What's your personal experience? Which company came to your place, and for what?

My Lincoln dealer here does that, but that's part of the Reserve program for most Lincoln dealers. My dealer here isn't even a Reserve authorized dealer. I just had service done there on my Fords when I had issues with the Ford dealer in town and while they didn't do the work in my driveway, they'd always offer to pick up the vehicle, take it to their shop for repairs, and return it. I would strongly consider a Lincoln over any other Ford product specifically because of their service. A lot of this small town dealer hospitality is dead, even in my town of 16k people. Lincoln is keeping it alive here, but that's also a dealer selling $70k average priced vehicles in a town that has a median income of $30k.

I haven't dealt with GM in years, so I don't know how they are in this area, but I had positive experiences with the dealer near me in Phoenix when I lived there that was a Cadillac/Buick dealer when Pontiac went away. They treated me and my 2004 GTO like royalty when the car should have been considered out of warranty and did what they called a "good faith warranty repair" when the passenger side mirror motor went out. I went in expecting to pay for a new mirror with paint since it was sold as one part. I went to pick up the car and they handing me a $0 invoice.

 

[JHZR2]

It still sees heat, but the system is lower pressure. It's still normal coolant, it just doesn't risk having oil or exhaust gases blasted into it.

No, it doesn’t. Put 100C water through a battery and the separator will be on the verge of melting (hint, BMS usually cut out due safety at 60C). Put 100C water through IGBTs and their life will be reduced.

They run lower temperature which doesn’t kill stuff off.
It’s not guaranteed; these systems are relatively closed. But it can still happen.

 

[Torrid]

No, it doesn’t. Put 100C water through a battery and the separator will be on the verge of melting (hint, BMS usually cut out due safety at 60C). Put 100C water through IGBTs and their life will be reduced.

They run lower temperature which doesn’t kill stuff off.
It’s not guaranteed; these systems are relatively closed. But it can still happen.

Can organisms grow in ethylene glycol? Legitimate question. I do not know the answer.

 

[JHZR2]

Can organisms grow in ethylene glycol? Legitimate question. I do not know the answer.

If it is inhibited, no. If the inhibitors are used up, bad water, etc…? Anything can happen. Not the first time for biofilm and fouling… but that was my initial point. You need to watch your water chemistry…

 

[Torrid]

If it is inhibited, no. If the inhibitors are used up, bad water, etc…? Anything can happen. Not the first time for biofilm and fouling… but that was my initial point. You need to watch your water chemistry…

Agreed 100%. That’s why that I’m apprehensive to used vehicles. I like regular fluid changes.

 

[JHZR2]

Agreed 100%. That’s why that I’m apprehensive to used vehicles. I like regular fluid changes.

But that includes Tesla! Oh the horror!!

 

[Torrid]

But that includes Tesla! Oh the horror!!

Sure, but like I said I’d do that anyway. Again, the savings is oil changes, transmission fluid changes, and fuel. It’s not even close how much cheaper per mile an EV is. I say that as a crazy car enthusiast that doesn’t take the most affordable vehicle by default.

The person that skips the Tesla coolant change skips it on everything else. It’s hard being a car enthusiast being a Tesla owner. It’s not like being a GTI owner. Most Tesla buyers haven’t given their cars a second thought.

 

[JHZR2]

Sure, but like I said I’d do that anyway. Again, the savings is oil changes, transmission fluid changes, and fuel. It’s not even close how much cheaper per mile an EV is. I say that as a crazy car enthusiast that doesn’t take the most affordable vehicle by default.

The person that skips the Tesla coolant change skips it on everything else. It’s hard being a car enthusiast being a Tesla owner. It’s not like being a GTI owner. Most Tesla buyers haven’t given their cars a second thought.

Oil and transmission fluids aren’t even a thought on my ownership costs. Maybe a half cent per mile.

If EV owners are paying their fair share, then reporting and paying road tax, or factoring in surcharges on registration also needs to be factored in.

 

[edyvw]

There is all of this, but who else other than all of us more enthusiast level people are doing any of it? I don’t know anyone that replaces brake fluid and I’m looked at like I have 2 heads when I say I maintain this in all my cars by the average person.

Coolant isn’t a high pressure system that sees the same stresses as a combustion engine. It doesn’t even have a change interval, though I will change that at some point too. There is gear oil that I would prefer to replace at 50k and likely will.

The benefit is the long life of the components and the lack of regular fluid changes combined with cheap power. I did a lot of math out to figure out my total costs when I considered replacing the GTI. In operating costs alone it would save me $1,000 a year and that car gets 36mpg. That just fuel and scheduled maintenance vs electricity. Anything beyond that would be either the same or not needed at all.

I should add that this is why I don’t like buying used cars that are more than a couple years old. I have a lot of concern about people not following basic maintenance and most manufacturers other than German ones don’t service the basic stuff. They’re all “lifetime” fill or 100k services. I don’t trust the set it and forget it mentality the general public are ok with. I tend to be very in tune with how any of my vehicles or equipment work and actively fix things based on sound and feel and do a lot of preventative maintenance.

Considering Tesla's suspension quality, they will be doing it a lot.
But your argument is: Hey, people are ignorant; therefore, it is irrelevant. If we looked at things that way, we could seal brake fluid reservoirs, coolant reservoirs etc.

 

[Torrid]

Oil and transmission fluids aren’t even a thought on my ownership costs. Maybe a half cent per mile.

If EV owners are paying their fair share, then reporting and paying road tax, or factoring in surcharges on registration also needs to be factored in.

I’m paying road tax. That’s figured in. My oil changes nearly match that. Most don’t even bother with transmission service unless somrhing breaks which is expensive. I spend almost x4 in fuel per mile and I get 36 mpg and my fuel is on the cheaper side here. It’s not even close. Anyone that’s telling you anything different is overpaying for electrical, or is lying and has an axe to grind.

I say this all as a dumb auto enthusiast that loves internal combustion. If the goal is cheap operation, EV is it.

 

[edyvw]

90% depends on how you count. If you count individual services, a simple oil and filter change service adds up pretty fast. If you count like components, then it's much closer. You probably know brake components last longer due to regenerative braking. In the 5 years I owned our '18 Model 3 it was ww fluid, 12v battery and a damaged tire. Oh yeah, and cabin air filter. It was a pain!

Here's scheduled maintenance from Tesla:

• Brake fluid health check every 4 years (replace if necessary)*.
• A/C desiccant bag replacement every 4** years.
• Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years.
• Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter.
• Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first.

Does oil change cost outpace tire expense on EVs? I doubt.

 

[Torrid]

Considering Tesla's suspension quality, they will be doing it a lot.
But your argument is: Hey, people are ignorant; therefore, it is irrelevant. If we looked at things that way, we could seal brake fluid reservoirs, coolant reservoirs etc.

That’s the nature of the general public. Go try to convince others of spending money and see how many you convince. I’ve been in many vehicles that are obviously broken and you can’t compel people to spend money. Ask the average person if they’ve ever changed brake fluid or coolant. It’ll likely take you awhile to find someone who has. The average consumer doesn’t care until something breaks. Remember that transmissions are “sealed” these days.

 

[edyvw]

That’s the nature of the general public. Go try to convince others of spending money and see how many you convince. I’ve been in many vehicles that are obviously broken and you can’t compel people to spend money. Ask the average person if they’ve ever changed brake fluid or coolant. It’ll likely take you awhile to find someone who has. The average consumer doesn’t care until something breaks. Remember that transmissions are “sealed” these days.

However, that does not have anything to do with projected cost. I said that numerous times if you ignore issues, it will be the most reliable car until you kill your family in it.
Here is the thing: Tesla owners in Europe cannot do that because. technical inspection will measure moisture in the brake fluid reservoir, load, stretch suspension, etc.
Your argument is: EV is much cheaper if you wanna be dumb.

 

[Torrid]

Does oil change cost outpace tire expense on EVs? I doubt.

Yes it does when you consider tire cost on other vehicles. The ones going through tires faster on EVs were already lead foots and a danger to society. Cars are beautiful technology, but the average consumer is too clueless to respect it.

 

[Torrid]

However, that does not have anything to do with projected cost. I said that numerous times if you ignore issues, it will be the most reliable car until you kill your family in it.
Here is the thing: Tesla owners in Europe cannot do that because. technical inspection will measure moisture in the brake fluid reservoir, load, stretch suspension, etc.
Your argument is: EV is much cheaper if you wanna be dumb.

It’s no different than any other car. EVs don’t gain moisture in the brakes quicker than any other car so what’s your argument?


I said it very plainly. EVs don’t do oil or transmission fluid changes and electricity is cheaper than gasoline per mile. Anything else is similar service if taken seriously. You didn’t change my statement at all. I meticulously maintain all my vehicles and my gas cars cost x4 per mile my EV costs. I’m not ignoring anything. The average public does though.

 

[edyvw]

Yes it does when you consider tire cost on other vehicles. The ones going through tires faster on EVs were already lead foots and a danger to society. Cars are beautiful technology, but the average consumer is too clueless to respect it.

EVs, in general, go through tires faster, much faster. They are heavier than ICE. There is no dancing around that. If one has a lead foot, they go even faster. You know that very well.
Listen, I agree EVs are cheaper. However, justifying it in such a way is absolutely ridiculous. Once we have EV for $20,000 with 500mls range, we can talk cheap. Until then, it is just keeping up with Joneses.