Quick house insulation question

[supton]

I replaced a slider with a conventional door, and now have a cavity next to it. I boarded over the outside, now I need to do the inside sheetrock. Stopped at HomeDepot today, and was confronted with "faced" vs "non-faced" insulation. Something about a vapor barrier. Do I need/want, and, just to verify, paper side towards outside of the house?

[Sidenote: this is obviously an exterior wall. I've done what I can to seal the water leaks; but this wall gets the brunt of the Noreasters, and tends to leak when the rain comes in sideways. Not only that, but the entire wall is currently uninsulated. Just clapboard on the outside, 2x4 rough cut ballon construction underneath that, then it's either sheetrock on the 2x4's or sheetrock on a layer of wood--I haven't opened up all of the wall to verify. The cavity next to the slider used some strapping to build up the wall, so I think the rest of the wall has some layer of wood board on it.]

 

[The_Jeff]

Paper faces inside if you have it.

However with little cavities around doors and such it doesn't really matter. FIL gets that yellow fiberglas insulation, shreds it, and stuffs it around windows etc with a putty knife.

 

[supton]

I don't recall the size off hand, but it's like 18" wide by door height for the cavity. Or maybe 15", don't recall now; nothing is standard on this old camp (I think I saw 22" stud spacing in one spot under a window). I do plan to shove something into the other cavities before I drywall.

Thanks!

 

[pcoxe]

Paper moisture barrier goes inside so that humidity inside the house does not condense inside the insulation as it tries to migrate outside.

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: pcoxe
Paper moisture barrier goes inside so that humidity inside the house does not condense inside the insulation as it tries to migrate outside.

 

[Nyquist]

If there is not wiring there, foam could be a good option. It's unaffected by moisture.

 

[bepperb]

In a cold climate vapor barrier goes in.

That being said, if you want to make sure there would never be a mold issue buy some EPS (blue, pink foam) and cut it to loosely fit the void and then use great stuff or similar to fill in the gaps and seal it.

If water is getting in the wall I would not use fiberglass, but actually you should probably reside the house!

 

[rjundi]

If you use raw insulation(no facing) you use sheet plastic moisture barrier over that. If insulation is faced do not add the barrier.

 

[Clevy]

You can get ceiling insulation that is 23" wide. Forget the paper backed stuff. A real vapor barrier is plastic

 

[supton]

I tried caulking a number of clapboards after Sandy, but it's the wrong time of year to tackle it. I think come summer I'll give it another coat of paint, and caulk all the seams this time.

I do need to just reside the house; but the first estimate was a bit above what I really wanted to pay ($12k! I think his estimate was like 2,125 sqft, makes sense, 2 story 20x28 house, but still!) and I suspect I ought to remove the chimney, which will require roof rework also. No small bill there.

No electric in the cavity, but that reminds me: friend is renovating his old house. Lots of old wiring, as the house is like 200 years old. Opened up one cavity, found a junction box. Now, the wall is an exterior one, and of course no insulation in the cavity. Fine. Opened up the junction box, which was like 18" wide by 24" tall -- and it was packed full of insulation! Recent pink insulation, no less. We think it was because of the old wiring that was in it; the insulation was to be electrical insulation around the old wires. Maybe, maybe not; my friend has found lots of really odd details, so who knows... In the same junction box there was one wire going through it that was using I think four wire nuts--like they needed to go through the box on one circuit, but didn't have a 24" wire to make it, so they used like 3 pieces of 6" wire.

 

[Donald]

Uunfaced with a plastic vapor barrier is best.

 

[JHZR2]

Yead id soak the house BEFORE insulating/closing up, and watch where water comes in and its route. Id seal that with flashing, OSI Quad sealant and similar tools.

 

[supton]

It took me a while to find the leak that I had in the basement--had a stream of water during Sandy. Turned out to be a window 1.5 stories up. Prior owner did not use any sort of flashing on any replacement windows; he was planning on residing the house, but sold it instead.

All of the wall, sans one cavity, is drywalled over. But I'll guess much of it is leaking; it's the rare spot where I can see water. The one spot that I could see clapboard was showing (through the one open cavity) water coming in between the clapboards (just a seep) so really, every clapboard seem needs to be caulked. Every single one.

 

[stockrex]

get the low expansion foam to seal gap around door, seal the any holes/gaps which can allow air to come in before you insulate with the remainder of the foam.

install flashing if water is coming in from the bottom. check all this before insulating and closing wall.

 

[LeakySeals]

Be mindful of external tyvek and internal vapor barriers used together.

 

[sleddriver]

You've got a lot going on there...leaking clapboards facing North, 200 yr. old balloon framing, no insulation, no flashing around window(s).

Wet insulation isn't effective. Air leaks really lowers insulations effectiveness as well. Might be quite a challenge given your old house.

In cold climates, the vapor barrier goes towards the living space.

 

[supton]

How much moisture is normal inside of a wall?

I finally got back to this. The plywood I installed (3/4") had some moisture at the very bottom. I'm guessing since it's exterior on one side, and interior on the other side, it's bound to get moisture at the bottom, due to condensation. Just at the very bottom, though, and it's all exposed at the moment.

However, there is a cavity next to it that I didn't touch (backstory: I replaced a sliding glass door with a smaller entry door). It's essentially two studs spaced 3" apart. I have clapboard on the outside, drywall on the inside. Nothing between. I had left a couple of inspection holes open. I went to drop insulation down into this (made the hole, and when I drew out the rod it was soaking wet! I cut another hole, and we're talking soaking wet clapboard.

This is next to the kitchen, and we have recirculation hot water for heat, so I do have moisture issues. [Most of the windows stay moist through the winter.] I don't know if I should leave this open, pack in insulation and hope for the best, or finish cutting out sheetrock on the rest of the cavity (lousy spot to redo, as it's a corner). I think I see a trim board which might be giving grief on the outside, but I don't expect to see above freezing temps for several months.

 

[Clevy]

If any of it is wet you need to address the moisture issue. Wet insulation insulates nothing. Wet wood rots.
Rip everything off the walls and start over. Address the moisture issue, then rebuild,otherwise you are just throwing away good money on lumber and labour on stuff that will need to get fixed again.
And 3' stud spacings is insanity. You can get away with 24" but 16" centers is the common new home stud spacings.
I'm a custom home builder and journeyman carpenter. If you like you can pm me directly,and I'll provide you my email for you to send me pics,and we can determine a plan of attack,but putting a band aid on the moisture issue will help nothing,and just cost you more money.

 

[supton]

Ah! I think I see the problem--I had a large hole in the cavity at the top, and whatever air was falling into it was dropping moisture behind. If I had sealed the cavity up, to prevent airleaks, perhaps there'd be very little moisture (but then I wouldn't be able to see it).

I dropped insulation into it; not sure if I should just rip out all the sheetrock and give it a day or two to dry. Or if that would just cause other issues (yet more airflow into the wall, causing water elsewhere?).

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
If any of it is wet you need to address the moisture issue. Wet insulation insulates nothing. Wet wood rots.
Rip everything off the walls and start over. Address the moisture issue, then rebuild,otherwise you are just throwing away good money on lumber and labour on stuff that will need to get fixed again.


Ouch. That's a lot of wall to redo. I'm afraid it's going to snowball into a complete house redo if I do that. You open up one bit, then find something wrong, then another bit, find something else... This whole wall isn't insulated at the moment, ancient clapboard... I have the sense that I need to rip off the siding and interior sheetrock.

Quote:

And 3' stud spacings is insanity. You can get away with 24" but 16" centers is the common new home stud spacings.


3 inches, not 3 feet. I think I've seen some 23" spacing on studs in this house, going by the nailing. But this was a rework of an existing door: I've got an original stud, then there was some framing for the slider 3" from that. I didn't rip out the header, so I left that framing alone. Hence the 3" wide cavity.

Quote:

I'm a custom home builder and journeyman carpenter. If you like you can pm me directly,and I'll provide you my email for you to send me pics,and we can determine a plan of attack,but putting a band aid on the moisture issue will help nothing,and just cost you more money.


No, I don't want to take up your time--you ought to be paid for your opinion.