Questions on using a fuel cleaner

[roadman]

From my post below on ethanol fuel cleaners, have some questions.

Was posted that if you are using E10 to run your tank out. Why?

Around town I would fill my tank at the half-empty mark so that I always had half a tank just in case.

Whenever I would take a major road trip, then I would run the tank out and refill.

Now for fuel cleaners, would usually use them on a major road trip and dump one in the tank first thing and then hit the road. Figured this would run the tank out with it in at highway speeds and blow all the [censored] out.

Or, as suggested below, run it in town, and let it sit to loosten all the gunk?

Todd

 

[RiceCake]

Fuel additives are solvents just destined to break down valve deposits, plug deposits, combustion chamber deposits, injector gumming, etc.

The tiny bit of fuel additive you pour in the gas tank is absolutely minimal and will never break anything down in the fuel tank. Even if the fuel tank has "deposits", they won't effect anything and breaking any junk free will just make it end up in your fuel filter anyhow.

As for emptying the tank on ethanol I've never heard that. Preventing condensation in fuel means keeping the tank regularly topped off just so there isn't an open space of air for condensation to develop on cool surfaces inside the tank.

You're doing the right thing, giving an additive before a long burn like that would probably be the best chance you have to clean up anything (if there actually is anything to clean being another story; ethanol itself is a pretty good solvent).

Edit: In that other post he mentioned ethanol fuel being good for people who run their tanks really low because ethanol is basically gas line antifreeze: ethanol mixes with water so ethanol takes care of condensation problems from running your tank low. With regular gasoline this water would build up and eventually be sucked up by the motor, causing stumbling.

You should keep it topped off though.

 

[roadman]

Thanks! That's kinda what I though. I've read here that E10 is dry or lacking in lube, so to run a cleaner with lube to help out.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Fuel additives are solvents just destined to break down valve deposits, plug deposits, combustion chamber deposits, injector gumming, etc.

The tiny bit of fuel additive you pour in the gas tank is absolutely minimal and will never break anything down in the fuel tank. Even if the fuel tank has "deposits", they won't effect anything and breaking any junk free will just make it end up in your fuel filter anyhow.

As for emptying the tank on ethanol I've never heard that. Preventing condensation in fuel means keeping the tank regularly topped off just so there isn't an open space of air for condensation to develop on cool surfaces inside the tank.

You're doing the right thing, giving an additive before a long burn like that would probably be the best chance you have to clean up anything (if there actually is anything to clean being another story; ethanol itself is a pretty good solvent).

Edit: In that other post he mentioned ethanol fuel being good for people who run their tanks really low because ethanol is basically gas line antifreeze: ethanol mixes with water so ethanol takes care of condensation problems from running your tank low. With regular gasoline this water would build up and eventually be sucked up by the motor, causing stumbling.

You should keep it topped off though.


Fuel system additives only effect the fuel system, they have almost zero effect on cylinder deposits in a direct sense, BUT if you clean out a gummed injector or two and then go for a blast down the autobahn, that will help burn off Carbon et al from the cylinders. The advertising blurb about cleaning cylinders is rubbish.
If you put an entire bottle of solvent into a real dirty fuel tank I can almost guarantee the brown crud will finish up in your fuel filter fairly quickly. I've seen numerous blocked fuel filters from tank cleaning by not so expert owners.

 

[Artem]

If you use quality fuel, there shouldn't be any "gunk" built up inside the gas tank. Never heard of such a think.

I drained the fuel from a 92 Prelude through the drain bolt on the bottom. When I stuck my pinky inside the drain hole and rubbed the area inside, I got nothing but good ol clean gas on my finger. This was a car that sat for 2 years with the same gas.

I call Bogus on the entire ordeal.

I use Redline or Amsoil fuel system additives as preventive maintenance, to keep the fuel injectors and valves clean.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: roadman
Thanks! That's kinda what I though. I've read here that E10 is dry or lacking in lube, so to run a cleaner with lube to help out.


Nope. It's sheer bull pucky that E10 gas is "dry" or "lacking lube", citing that flex-fuel (up to E85 capable) automobiles have been out there for over 4+ yrs now, some folks in certain region regularly runs E85 (means 85% ethanol while 15% petroleum gasoline) and I have yet to come across one single incident of fuel pump premature failure due to fuel too "dry" or "lack of lubrication".

On the oil/gas additive side of the board you'll see some regular folks endorse some kind of mistereous additives that they "claimed" to lubricate fuel pump, etc. Fact of the matter is, unless someone intentionally runs their fuel pump dry regularly (which is the leading cause of premature fuel pump failure, otherwise, mainly product manufacturing defect), all modern electrical fuel pumps are designed to run on modern fuel, period.

don't come along preaching Ethanol-blended gas being "dry",and modern EFI fuel pumps require additional lubrication in fuel because of that. There are literally millions of avg joes out there that runs on ethanol-blended fuel without paying attention to it and their fuel pumps still lead a very long service life.

Q.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: Quest
Nope. It's sheer bull pucky that E10 gas is "dry" or "lacking lube", citing that flex-fuel (up to E85 capable) automobiles have been out there for over 4+ yrs now, some folks in certain region regularly runs E85 (means 85% ethanol while 15% petroleum gasoline) and I have yet to come across one single incident of fuel pump premature failure due to fuel too "dry" or "lack of lubrication".

You can't cite the existence and functioning of Flex Fuel vehicles as proof that E10 is not lacking in lubrication. Flex Fuel vehicles are designed to run on E85! My Suburban has a gasoline engine. 89% of 2002 model year Suburbans have Flex Fuel engines and can therefore run all day on E85, but that doesn't mean I am going to put it in my tank and think that all will be well. There is a reason that my Suburban falls into the 11% of non-Flex Fuel vehicles for its model year...because the engine is not designed to run on E85!

 

[Rob_Roy]

"Was posted that if you are using E10 to run your tank out. Why?"

I just went through this with my '99 F350. For two months I have been battling problems with this truck. First it started skipping, which I was able to resolve with new plugs and coils. Then when the weather got cold the truck was very hard to start first thing in the morning. I only use this truck for odd jobs and plowing snow at our house, so it gets about 1000 miles per year. I always tried to keep the tank at 3/4 full or more to prevent condensation.

I couldn't find anything wrong that would contribute to the hard starting, so I began to suspect the gas was bad. I ran the truck right to fumes, and then let it idle at home until it ran out of gas. The fuel filter only had 3000 miles on it, and I was horrified at the amount of moisture in it. 5 gallons of fresh gas and it feels like I have a new truck. Starts perfect and runs excellent.

I really think the ethanol & moisture separated out of the gas and had collected at the bottom of the tank. When the truck sat overnight it would get a big slug of ethanol & water when I tried to start it. Lesson learned, I will drive the truck more often at least once per year try to run the tank down.

 

[cchase]

The fuel tank on my truck has 381,000 miles on it and over 20,000 gallons of fuel have been put in the tank.

When I last opened the tank up to replace the fuel pump, the bottom of the tank was clean. Nothing was down there but clean metal.

Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Quest]

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02

You can't cite the existence and functioning of Flex Fuel vehicles as proof that E10 is not lacking in lubrication. Flex Fuel vehicles are designed to run on E85! My Suburban has a gasoline engine. 89% of 2002 model year Suburbans have Flex Fuel engines and can therefore run all day on E85, but that doesn't mean I am going to put it in my tank and think that all will be well. There is a reason that my Suburban falls into the 11% of non-Flex Fuel vehicles for its model year...because the engine is not designed to run on E85!


If you aren't comfortable with your 99 sub with E10 gas, so be it.

Afterall: I lived in E10 region for decades and we do have gas stations that regularly sells E10 gas since late 80s (way before your EPA mandates for E10, Mohawk and Husky). both my 91 Mazda (1 owner until it was sold, with over 150k on Odo and paint peeling issues) and my wifey's 88 Accord (EFI version) regularly ran on E10 gas and never have 1 single fuel pump premature failures because the gas was too "Dry".

Unless you prove to me that it happened to you a few times on you 99 suburb (and for that I would blame it on GeeAmm for their fuel pump quality), otherwise, it's just housewifey's tale that gets spread on the internet just like bonzai kittens, etc.

Q.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: Quest
If you aren't comfortable with your 99 sub with E10 gas, so be it.

Afterall: I lived in E10 region for decades and we do have gas stations that regularly sells E10 gas since late 80s (way before your EPA mandates for E10, Mohawk and Husky). both my 91 Mazda (1 owner until it was sold, with over 150k on Odo and paint peeling issues) and my wifey's 88 Accord (EFI version) regularly ran on E10 gas and never have 1 single fuel pump premature failures because the gas was too "Dry".

Did you even read my post?

1. It is a 2002 Suburban.
2. I never said nor implied that engines or fuel system components would without exception fail before "x" number of miles if run with E10. I referenced E85 in an effort to simply (or so I thought) state that there is a certain point where the concentration of ethanol in gasoline will make it harmful on an engine. And if you don't trust me on this topic, take it from an organization that probably knows a little more about it than either of us: Popular Mechanics - Can E15 Gasoline Really Damage Your Engine?

Originally Posted By: Quest
Unless you prove to me that it happened to you a few times on you 99 suburb (and for that I would blame it on GeeAmm for their fuel pump quality), otherwise, it's just housewifey's tale that gets spread on the internet just like bonzai kittens, etc.

So I have to be the one with the problem (not just once, but multiple times) for you to believe it is true? I can see the logic in that, when you consider our long term personal relationship outside of the anonymity of a public online forum. (Where is that "sarcasm" button when you need it?)

And I do blame GM for their poor fuel pump design in the Suburban, but that does not mean I agree with subjecting that component to increased wear through the use of [censored] fuel.

 

[cchase]

Most vehicles made within the past 25 years or so are designed to run on E10.