Question for Pablo and/or Gary Allen

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NewC6

NewC6

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Another dealer on another forum, corvetteforum, did some research for us C6 Z06 owners and it ended up that Amsoil changed its recommendation for the Z06 transmission to ATD from ATF. I have the Amsoil ATF in and am happy with it....BUT. Wondering if ATD would be even better in this transmission than the ATF? These transmission seems to be having some issues with the 2nd gear synchros. Once warm the transmission shifts great but when cold, the 1-2 shift can be "notchy" if not downright grinding.
I guess what I am really asking is why the ATD instead of the ATF? What does the ATD have going for it over the ATF?

Thanks
 
Actually Amsoil recommends both ATD and ATF. Possibly ATD could help a bit, but I'm not a huge fan of any ATF in a MT.

I think what you may be referring to is the older (pre ATL) lower viscosity Amsoil ATF. For sure if that is what you are using, change to ATD or the NEW Amsoil ATF.
 
Thanks Pablo but as to the newer ATL, we have heard it is to "thin" and doesn't work as well. I am using the older Dexron III ATF and was just wondering what the ATD might have over the ATF (not the ATL) if anything.
And I agree, not a big fan of ATF in a transmission but I am still under warranty and don't want to make waves. Especially nowdays with the state of GM.

Thanks
 
You seem to be suffering from a visc issue. When warm ..everything is fine. I don't know how much you can alter that transitional state without going lighter. I don't know how much going lighter can alter it.

ATF
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 7.6
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 38.9
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 168

ATL
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 6.0
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 29.8
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 153

ATD
Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 7.41
Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 37.14
VI-calculated 171

Unless there's some other property to ATD that can cure your 2nd gear issue, then ATL would seem the sensible alternative.
 
Hi,
Pablo - You may not be a fan of ATF in a manual transmission but some gearbox Manufacturers are and have been for 50 years or more! MB and BMW (ZF) are just two examples!!!

Use what is specified by the Manufacturer - it is always the safe choice!
 
Doug. Not really. It is SOMETIMES the safe choice.
I am aware that some new transmissions are truly designed with ATF in mind. But this may be a decision of higher ups. I am not convinced that the engineers jump up and down for joy at being able to use precious ATF because it is such a wonderful gearbox lube.
I believe they may be told to accomodate it in their design - make it work with ATF.
Thus, the dealer only has to stock one cheaper fluid for power steering systems, auto transmissions, manual transmissions, and transfer cases.
 
Originally Posted By: NewC6
Thanks Pablo but as to the newer ATL, we have heard it is to "thin" and doesn't work as well. I am using the older Dexron III ATF and was just wondering what the ATD might have over the ATF (not the ATL) if anything.
And I agree, not a big fan of ATF in a transmission but I am still under warranty and don't want to make waves. Especially nowdays with the state of GM.

Thanks


I think you sorta missed my point. You said you have Amsoil ATF in your transmission. When did you install it? If it was, say, last year or not in 2009, there is a good chance it's the earlier, thinner formula Amsoil ATF. Not the new 7.6 cSt version.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: NewC6
Thanks Pablo but as to the newer ATL, we have heard it is to "thin" and doesn't work as well. I am using the older Dexron III ATF and was just wondering what the ATD might have over the ATF (not the ATL) if anything.
And I agree, not a big fan of ATF in a transmission but I am still under warranty and don't want to make waves. Especially nowdays with the state of GM.

Thanks


I think you sorta missed my point. You said you have Amsoil ATF in your transmission. When did you install it? If it was, say, last year or not in 2009, there is a good chance it's the earlier, thinner formula Amsoil ATF. Not the new 7.6 cSt version.


AHHHH! Gotcha now. Yes it was installed late last year. So that means the newest ATF was reformulated recently and I might give that a try. Right?

Just so you know, my car doesn't have the severe 1-2 shift issue. Yes when the car is cold the 1-2 shift feels slightly notchy, but then I am aware of this transmission's problems and am probably looking for it. I attribute my transmission's good behavior to the Amsoil and am just trying to make sure I put the absolute best Amsoil ATF in it that I can get.
As an aside, the Amsoil SVG 75W-90 is pretty much the one true fix to the differential clunk these cars have. MUCH better than the GM "grape juice" that GM is charging an arm and a leg for.
I have Amsoil in my transmission, Diff, PS and brakes. I know this stuff is good.
Thanks for taking the time to set me straight on the ATF.
 
Also, any way to guarantee that I get the newer ATF, vice older left over stock, when I order it from the Amsoil website?
Thanks
 
Doug says to use whatever is specified by the manufacturer as it is always the safe choice. Now, he's the expert, not me, but he is also Totally correct! I follow that advice even to the point of using T-IV exclusively in the A/W transmission of our '03 V-8 Tundra. I will NOT use a 'universal' ATF which is 'recommended' for use in T-IV transmissions, although the pickup has well in excess of 100,000 miles, so is well out of warranty. The ONLY place I vary from mfg. recommendations is on fluid change intervals, as I do not believe ANY ATF is lifetime fluid, and certainly not T-IV...and I am convinced the Toyota oil change intervals for transmissions are excessively long. The modern manual transmissions, (the actual topic at hand) regardless of whether an ATF or 75W-90 is specified, also require periodic fluid changes.
 
Originally Posted By: NewC6
Gary, thanks to you also, didn't mean to ignore you.


Nah ..no problem. I was just noodling the issue.

The only additional question that I would ask is if the condition was always present when the temp wasn't up. That is, did the ATF appear transparent when first added ..then develop the 1-2 shift issue when cold. That would indicate a fatigue issue of some property in the fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: NewC6
Also, any way to guarantee that I get the newer ATF, vice older left over stock, when I order it from the Amsoil website?
Thanks


Today there is no doubt. You will get the latest from the DC. Now if you buy from a store, that's a different matter.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: NewC6
Gary, thanks to you also, didn't mean to ignore you.


Nah ..no problem. I was just noodling the issue.

The only additional question that I would ask is if the condition was always present when the temp wasn't up. That is, did the ATF appear transparent when first added ..then develop the 1-2 shift issue when cold. That would indicate a fatigue issue of some property in the fluid.



Those of us using Amsoil are not seeing what you are talking about. Those using the GM stuff ARE seeing that. They talk about how it shifts fine for a while then gets notchy again. GM is also using Dexron VI now even though these transmission's, well at least mine, called for Dex III. Folks using just about any aftermarket Dex III seem to not have the issue once they change.
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Pablo - You may not be a fan of ATF in a manual transmission but some gearbox Manufacturers are and have been for 50 years or more! MB and BMW (ZF) are just two examples!!!

Use what is specified by the Manufacturer - it is always the safe choice!


My experiences with later Ford manual transmissions that spec ATF has been different. I have a 1996 Contour/Mondeo with the MTX75 manual transmission which spec'd ATF in the US. By model year 2000 they changed it over to Ford's own MTF because of the problems ATF was causing. Not sure exactly but the ATF was causing swelling of some parts which caused problems when shifting. They back spec'd their MTF to all previous years of this manual transmission. Also my 2002 F-150 with the Mazda manual transmission shifted horribly with the Ford spec'd ATF. I switched to Royal Purple SynchroMax fluid and the shifting improved much over the ATF. The transmission shifts bad but it was much worse with the ATF
21.gif
.

In general manual transmission vehicles in the US are such a small percentage in the cars sold in the US that I don't think the US vehicle manufactures really put much effort into them. As posted previously they'll use a fluid that works "ok" in all seasons in lieu of a low volume, ie more expensive fluid. I can't speak for Mercedes or BMW, maybe their ATF's have better properties that work in manual transmissions than US spec'd ATF's.

Whimsey
 
Have you guys considered MTL by Redline? It has a good track record in transmissions calling for ATF but lacking durability and good shift performance when running ATF!MTL is thicker then most ATF's but not as thick as gear lube. It is a great way to split the difference so to speak! Since it is designed for manual transmissions it almost always gives better shift perfromance then ATF or Motor oil and it is more durable. It is thin enough for use in manual transmissions that reley on an oil pump to bring lube up to the top of the trans.

If the 2nd gear synchro is making a lot of noise and not wanting to engauge that is a sign of it wearing out. It might be wise to get it replaced before it grenades then go over to Redline MTL!
 
Problem is, the synchro problem is showing up in cars fresh off the showroom floor so there is something else going on besides wear on the synchro.

As to Redline MTL, are you sure a diehard Amsoil fan (me) can make the switch?
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
The thing is, if you want to drift up from ATF, why not use Amsoil MTF? A fairly "light" viscosity MTF.

Amsoil MTF


The Gm spec is 9986252, the MTF doesn't list that as one of its specs.
 
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