Question and Opinions on Changing Factory Fill

[KrisZ]

I read a lot of discussions on this topic, including this forum, and it seems that it is just a personal preference for people doing it one way or the other. I have not seen any data from both sides that would show how either method affects the engine in the long run.

The only thing that bugs me is; why are people that are advocating the early oil change (to get rid of metal shaving) focusing on engine oil only? Following their logic they should be replacing pretty much all the fluids in their cars very early, but they don't, or do they? (maybe other fluids are simply not mentioned?)

 

[hounddog]

My 09 Dodge with 5.7 Hemi the book said drive it conservatively with some short full throttle burst in the first 300 miles.I worry more about DIFFERANTAL break in then I do engines.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I read a lot of discussions on this topic, including this forum, and it seems that it is just a personal preference for people doing it one way or the other. I have not seen any data from both sides that would show how either method affects the engine in the long run.

The only thing that bugs me is; why are people that are advocating the early oil change (to get rid of metal shaving) focusing on engine oil only? Following their logic they should be replacing pretty much all the fluids in their cars very early, but they don't, or do they? (maybe other fluids are simply not mentioned?)





You're right Kris, it doesn't seem to make much difference and for the most part is a "feel good" move.

Many of us DO change most other fluids early. But since this is a motor oil site, oil is what gets talked about the most. I changed the diff oil in my Tacoma at 15k and there was quite a bit of metal in it, very glad I got it out of there. And like many others I'm systematically draining and refilling my atf fluid every 10k or so

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

The only thing that bugs me is; why are people that are advocating the early oil change (to get rid of metal shaving) focusing on engine oil only? Following their logic they should be replacing pretty much all the fluids in their cars very early, but they don't, or do they? (maybe other fluids are simply not mentioned?)


Most of us do. On my Subaru I changed the Engine oil @ 1500 miles. Diffs and transfer case around 15k and power steering drained and filled it about 5 times so far.

Did and drain and refill of the ATF @ 24k. Will do it every other oil change until I use up the case of ATF.

Do the same for most of my vehicles.

On the other hand, I did change the factory fill transmission gear oil on my Jetta at 292k miles. Was still working fine but felt guilty.

The 292k oil was working better than the 40k Mobil 1 gear oil I had in my Toyota. It started out ok, but went bad quick IMO.

Take care, Bill

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Patman
With all the new cars I've bought so far (6 of them) I've always done a very early change around 500 miles (sometimes earlier) but I no longer believe that's necessary. If there was an excessive amount of wear metals floating in that factory fill, the oil filter is going to catch them. And anything smaller than that is going to float through the engine relatively harmless. I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the cars on the road right now never had an early oil change done and they are all just fine. So I really don't think an early oil change makes an engine last longer at all, so I feel it's just a waste of time and money.

So what made you come to the decision that an early change wasn't needed? Was it further reflection....or data? Just curious.


A few things made me come to the decision. For one, seeing the UOAs on factory fill. Sure, some of us might panic at seeing 20 or 30ppm of iron and lead in those UOAs, but in reality that's not very much at all, and will in no way shorten the life of the engine. And as I mentioned above, most of the cars on the road today never got an early first oil change, but yet there are tons of cars out there with over 200k on them and are running just fine.

If I were buying a new car for my wife right now I would immediately go to a 5000 mile oil change interval, including running the factory fill for 5000 miles. If I were buying a new Corvette, I wouldn't do the first oil change until the oil life monitor hit the 50% mark (which would be around 5-6k) Then from that point on I'd wait until the monitor hit zero before doing future changes. So I would do the first one on that car slightly earlier, mainly because I'd be too impatient and would want to see my first UOA.

 

[KrisZ]

I think an early oil change is a must if you use this engine break in method

 

[bronx]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I think an early oil change is a must if you use this engine break in method



Thanks for the article, I read it and it's convincing, but why would just about every auto manufacturer recommend easy city driving (that's what I did).

For example my toyota manual says for the first 1000 miles:
"avoid full throttle acceleration when starting and driving" "avoid racing the engine"
"don't lug the engine"
"do not drive for a long time at a single speed"
"don't tow a trailer for the first 500 miles"

Of course if hammering the throttle for short bursts was the best for this engine, Toyota legal probably wouldn't let that appear in the manual.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Patman
With all the new cars I've bought so far (6 of them) I've always done a very early change around 500 miles (sometimes earlier) but I no longer believe that's necessary. If there was an excessive amount of wear metals floating in that factory fill, the oil filter is going to catch them. And anything smaller than that is going to float through the engine relatively harmless. I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the cars on the road right now never had an early oil change done and they are all just fine. So I really don't think an early oil change makes an engine last longer at all, so I feel it's just a waste of time and money.
The filter misses lots of crud every time the filter bypasses the oil .Yes it does.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: bronx
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I think an early oil change is a must if you use this engine break in method



Thanks for the article, I read it and it's convincing, but why would just about every auto manufacturer recommend easy city driving (that's what I did).



The owners manuals have a very conservative break in procedure instead of Motoman's because the average driver can't tell the difference between driving it like you stole it and an aggressive but intelligent break in, like Motoman's.

Actually, it's not originally Motoman's procedure, and he does mention that he got the idea from the way manufacturers break in engines.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I read a lot of discussions on this topic, including this forum, and it seems that it is just a personal preference for people doing it one way or the other. I have not seen any data from both sides that would show how either method affects the engine in the long run.

The only thing that bugs me is; why are people that are advocating the early oil change (to get rid of metal shaving) focusing on engine oil only? Following their logic they should be replacing pretty much all the fluids in their cars very early, but they don't, or do they? (maybe other fluids are simply not mentioned?)



I change all the fluids in my cars when new. The problem is do we keep the car long enough to see the difference I has a 92 toyots 4x4 V6 maintained to perfection and some guy rear ended it so hard it was totalled at 116,000 miles just broke in. What many on this site do is read with out understanding what they read. For example I'll use Doug H. posts .Doug is an real expert, you will not find information any better .His experience is from running fleet vehicles . I have dealt with people who manage fleets and they can tell you to the penny what works and what doesn't and why. A vehicle is $$$ cost from when you buy it to when you sell it. If you sort them out there are many super bright people on this site.

 

[bigmike]

My 09 Accord has almost 6,000 miles on the FF. MM says 30%. I'll change it at 15% like Honda told me to.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[KrisZ]

Quote:
I change all the fluids in my cars when new. The problem is do we keep the car long enough to see the difference I has a 92 toyots 4x4 V6 maintained to perfection and some guy rear ended it so hard it was totalled at 116,000 miles just broke in. What many on this site do is read with out understanding what they read. For example I'll use Doug H. posts .Doug is an real expert, you will not find information any better .His experience is from running fleet vehicles . I have dealt with people who manage fleets and they can tell you to the penny what works and what doesn't and why. A vehicle is $$$ cost from when you buy it to when you sell it. If you sort them out there are many super bright people on this site.


I know what you mean, I had a 95 accord, bought used from a guy with all maintenance records, he gave me receipts for everything done, oil changes, tire rotations, yearly rust proofing etc. I kept it well maintained as well. At 9 years of age it rode better than my in-laws 5 year old Echo, no rattles, suspension fas nice and firm, and all of it was for nothing, as it was totalled just like your Toyota.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Honda does have a factory fill that contains higher levels of either silicon or moly...I've forgotten which,
I sincerely hope Honda doesn't add silicon to their oil...

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

Ya know, this is the same principle as oil and additives. The manufacturer and their engineers deem the best break-in procedure based on their reckoning of what's best for what THEY designed. Then along comes Motoman to tell us that the

method is best, an antiquated method at best. In fact, being an old [censored], I've seen 45 years of new cars come out and I can't remember ANY of them that didn't want a varied, but GENTLE break-in starting off with a new car.

If I paid 50,000 bucks for a new car (actually, even the 10K I paid for my new Hyundais was sufficient for me) and the manufacturer wanted a gentle break-in, then by crackie, I'm doing it their way. As for Motoman, a frat-rat shade tree mechanic that needs to stand a little closer to his razor at best, if he's recommending all this, I'd probably do the opposite of what HE says on EVERY subject of things automotive.

I'd say he's F.O.S.

 

[cookieman214]

Where are the original factory filters that have been cut open, and are full of metal shavings and/or other harmful particles?

Would it not stand to reason that someone has proof of this?

Or, would it stand to reason that there is no proof of this?

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

 

[ADFD1]

After reading through UOA's of new engines and the higher metal counts than broken in engines it was enough to convince me to change the FF early to get the junk out.

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