Question about Rechargeable Batteries

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In the old days with nickel cadmium batteries they suggested you totally discharge the battery and then recharge it fully for best life. You were told not to overcharge it.

Some say that you should charge it only to about 80% of capacity. Does that apply to BOTH NiCad and modern lithium batteries? I have a new cell phone that uses the latter.

Your input is appreciated.
 
Nickel based batteries should always be charged to 100%.

Li-Ion batteries apparently like the 80% charge thing which allegedly extends their capacity. Read about it years ago, but cant recall off the top why. My laptop has a "battery optimizer" thing where you can choose what percentage charging begins and when it stops.

I don't think you'll gain any more useful life by partially charging your cellphone, though. To me, it wouldn't be worth the risk.
 
Lithium batteries should be recharged at about 40 %, but not as critical as NiCads. They have no "memory".

Lithium batteries hold their charge much longer (almost a year) and with most chargers, they can be constantly left on charge.
 
The Dewalt chargers "condition" the NiCad and the battery can be left in the charger all the time. Their latest battery charger also handles LiIon.

They also say they equalize the multiple cells in a battery pack. Maybe there is circuitry in the battery pack?

So a well designed battery charger can deal with the complexities of all battery types. Now chargers included with Chinese tools, who knows.
 
Here's a decent article on lithium-ions:
batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

If it's tl;dr for you then for lithium-ion shallow cycles will give you a lot longer life than deep cycles, and, if you charge to about 90% it will give you longer life than charging to 100%.

What usually happens in computer battery packs is 1 of multiple cells goes bad; the rest still have cycles left in them. I suspect this will also be the case in lithium-ion tool battery packs, but I haven't had one go bad yet.
 
the best thing to do with Li ion batteries is to have short charge cycles. Dont let it get above 80% and try not to let it go below 20% at the absolute lowest. Charging between 30% and 80% would be ideal for long term battery life.
 
Many moons ago, I did battery research on Li-ion batteries. The web address provided by spackard actually does a pretty good job of describing what happens when cells are cycled under various conditions, but it's pretty short on details of the underlying chemistry. For anybody interested, I'll give you my best layman's chemistry lesson on Li-ion batteries, at least as I understood matters 10 years ago.

All batteries comprise a cathode and anode. In Li-ion batteries, the cathode is some variant of LiCoO2 (usually doped with some Ni and/or Mn to improve stability), and the anode is typically graphite. Most of the limitations of Li-ion batteries lie in the cathode material.

There are two fundamental issues when a Li-ion battery is charged/discharged: the structural stability of the cathode itself and the electrical conduction between individual grains or crystals) of cathode material.

To understand the issue of structural stability, you first need to know something about LiCoO2. It is a layered compound consisting of alternating layers of lithium, oxygen, and cobalt atoms: Li-O-Co-O-Li-O-... ad infinitum. The layered structure of this compound is critical to its function because during charge/discharge, the Li ions must be mobile, and the layered structure provides a pathway for the Li ions to move into/out of the compound. During charging, the Li ions move out of the structure and migrate toward the anode. During discharge, this process is reversed.

The greater the charging potential, the more Li is removed from the structure, which increases the charge capacity (the amount of energy the battery can store). However, only about 55% of the Li can be removed before the structure becomes unstable (the Co atoms move into the empty sites and cannot move back to their original position). When this happens, the Li migration pathways become blocked, and Li can no longer move into/out of the structure, which means it can no longer function as a battery). The removal of 55% of the lithium corresponds to a charging potential of about 4.3 V. This is why Li-ion batteries should never be charged at higher potentials.

Theoretically, it's impossible to "over-discharge" a Li-ion battery, because after all of the vacant Li sites are again occupied by Li, the chemical reaction ceases. But here's where the other issue arises: as Li transports into/out of the structure of LiCoO2, the LiCoO2 crystals expand and contract (they expand when Li is removed and contract when Li is inserted). This expansion/contraction creates a problem because it causes the individual crystallites to separate and lose electrical conduction.

LiCoO2 is a powder. When prepared as a cathode material, it is ground into a fine powder, mixed with a binder, and coated onto a substrate (usually a conductive plastic film or aluminum foil). But, fundamentally, the prepared cathode consists of small grains of powder that are simply packed closely together. For a battery to function, you need electrons to move freely to/from the cathode/anode, which means that electrons most also move freely between the individual LiCoO2 crystals within the cathode. But when the LiCoO2 crystals expand/contract, small gaps develop between the crystals, and electrical conduction is lost. Any LiCoO2 crystals that lose electrical conduction with the rest of the crystals effectively become "dead."

This loss of conductivity is the reason for limiting the extent of charge/discharge. In effect, you are limiting the expansion/contraction of the LiCoO2 crystals so they don't separate from each other. This expansion/contraction is also responsible for the "coarsening" of the films described in the article linked by spackard. The 80%/20% guideline seems about right to me.

I'll let someone else compact this into a tl;dr version.
 
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
In the old days with nickel cadmium batteries they suggested you totally discharge the battery and then recharge it fully for best life. You were told not to overcharge it.

Some say that you should charge it only to about 80% of capacity. Does that apply to BOTH NiCad and modern lithium batteries? I have a new cell phone that uses the latter.

Your input is appreciated.


I think the total discharge bit was mainly to ensure that no oddball phases of materials formed on the electrodes, and that (dumb) chargers of the day didnt mistakingly overcharge. An overcharge can be damaging, but more likely can cause a voltage drop due to poor ionic conductivity due to some slight chemistry chages that are reversible, but require better voltage control.

Overcharge and overdischarge are abusive for any battery. Generally the narrower the range of potential that you can keep the chemistry in, the better, and the more cycles.

Li-ion like any battery is balancing side reactions against how much energy you can get in, in total. In Li-ion, too high and you oxidize electrolyte, causing impedance growth, excessive SEI layers, and breakdown and gassing. Too low a voltage and you can start to solubilize certain electrode materials, and then replate them elsewhere, leading to shorts. Too low voltage also causes too high current, and then higher I2R heating rates.

Li-ion has no appreciable self-discharge, unlike Ni-type batteries, and can be left at a discharged state, which is actually better for lifetime. Storing cold and at a low SOC is optimal.

There are aspects to the materials and structure changes which drive a lot of this stuff too.

Most Li-ion batteries put into service are already derated in terms of nameplate to chemical energy truly present, and then are operated in a narrower range.
 
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(well slightly).

Lithium single use batteries are popping up that the supermarket for $5per AA as an example.

Seems incredibly wasteful to single use and toss these items.

What's the likelihood of getting a couple of recharges out of them ?
 
The new LiMmNiCo cells don't want full voltage charging when low and last longer with a stepped charging scheme. Nothing complex, on a 50V (we would call it 48V) system, just go 46V (if really low) then when fully charged at 46V go 48V, then 50V every so often.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
32.gif
(well slightly).

Lithium single use batteries are popping up that the supermarket for $5per AA as an example.

Seems incredibly wasteful to single use and toss these items.

What's the likelihood of getting a couple of recharges out of them ?



Different chemistry. Those arent Li-ion batteries. These are Li primaries that are Lithium Iron Disulfide. I wouldnt go charging them up.

IIRC, they use Li metal as the anode, which will have very bad plating characteristics upon recharge, and could well create a dendritic short. These batteries use organic solvents which will readily burn. I wouldnt play.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
The new LiMmNiCo cells don't want full voltage charging when low and last longer with a stepped charging scheme. Nothing complex, on a 50V (we would call it 48V) system, just go 46V (if really low) then when fully charged at 46V go 48V, then 50V every so often.


Generally one is best off charging CV/CC, but the max voltage is related to the cell impedance, which is highly realted to the design and quality of the cells you are using. Remember that for charge, Vt=Voc+IR. Unless you have sufficient current limiting in the electronics, too high of charge voltage will allow too much current to flow in and thus the charge rate will be too high, I2R heating will effect the battery internally. Charging at lower voltage means you cannot put as much current in, being healthier for the battery.

NCM probably has a pretty good slope that may actually be bimodal due to the presence LiCoO2 and Mn spinel in the cathode. So you may charge one phase then the other.
 
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