Question about Porsche A40 spec. - misprint?

[kai_fj]

Hi all. Long time lurker on this forum (has served as a major source of procrastination for many, many years!).

I've recently picked up an entirely superfluous bottle of Valvoline MST C3 5W-30. On the back of the bottle it lists the Porsche A40 spec - I was firmly under the impression that was exclusive to xW-40 oils?

Am I wrong or is it just a misprint? Bought from a major auto store chain, so not worried about authenticity.

Thanks for your help!

 

[FowVay]

The A40 specification was for vehicles that don't have particulate filters or direct injection. They were generally the older vehicles that were designed around a full SAPS additive package. Porsche, along with every other company on the planet has incorporated particulate filters and direct injection into their fleet of vehicles and now specifies oils that are more friendly to these requirements. They introduced an entirely new oil specification group for these new engines which they classify as C40, C30, and C20.

Based on this, I would suspect that the specification on the Valvoline bottle is a misprint. Without any other information than what is published here I would guess that this MST 5W-30 would fall into the Porsche C30 classification.

 

[Gokhan]

It is not a misprint. It says "suitable for." It is not claiming that it has the Porsche A40 approval. Suitable for and approved for are different things. You are correct that A40 is only for xW-40 oils. Check the actual approvals on Valvoline's website, which are SN, C3, dexos2, 229.31/51, and LL-04 but no Volkswagen or Porsche ones.

 

[wemay]

It is not a misprint. It says "suitable for." It is not claiming that it has the Porsche A40 approval. Suitable for and approved for are different things. You are correct that A40 is only for xW-40 oils. Check the actual approvals on Valvoline's website, which are SN, C3, dexos2, 229.31/51, and LL-04 but no Volkswagen or Porsche ones.

This

 

[Jetronic]

no, it has 2 colums on the label, one "suitable for" and one "specifications". It's a deliberate attempt at obfuscation as it IS claiming A40 on the bottle.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Porsche A40 also includes 5w50 Mobil 1.

 

[Gokhan]

This

Yup, it also says "suitable for ACEA A3/B4" on the bottle, despite ACEA C3 and A3/B4 being incompatible specs. C30 oils fall under C3, and A40 oils fall under A3/B4. However, Porsche also recommends C30 oils in applications originally specifying A40 as far as I know, perhaps save for regions with high-sulfur-content fuel.

 

[kai_fj]

It is not a misprint. It says "suitable for." It is not claiming that it has the Porsche A40 approval. Suitable for and approved for are different things. You are correct that A40 is only for xW-40 oils. Check the actual approvals on Valvoline's website, which are SN, C3, dexos2, 229.31/51, and LL-04 but no Volkswagen or Porsche ones.

Thanks for the input! I find this a bit of a stretch - the "suitable for:" clearly relates to the Brands listed below and the "Porsche A40“ is clearly listed under the specifications column.

 

[Gokhan]

Thanks for the input! I find this a bit of a stretch - the "suitable for:" clearly relates to the Brands listed below and the "Porsche A40“ is clearly listed under the specifications column.

See my second post, where I explained this further. They also said it's "suitable for A3/B4," despite it being a C3 oil. Otherwise, this oil has no actual Porsche approval of any kind, which is something you can easily check in Porsche lists. It is only "suitable," not approved. It is surprising that, despite being an xW-30 oil, Valvoline didn't find it "suitable" for the C30, probably because it's a tougher spec than the A40.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10174599-0001.pdf

https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-forum/1305715d1561597630-porsche-approved-oil-list-porscheapprovedengineoils-1.pdf

 

[sloinker]

Sneaky Sneaky.........

 

[jurko]

Yup, it also says "suitable for ACEA A3/B4" on the bottle, despite ACEA C3 and A3/B4 being incompatible specs. C30 oils fall under C3, and A40 oils fall under A3/B4. However, Porsche also recommends C30 oils in applications originally specifying A40 as far as I know, perhaps save for regions with high-sulfur-content fuel.

All 2020 and onward Porche flat 4 and flat 6 cylinder engines have now C40 spec. which is Mid to Low SAPS cousin of A40 spec. with HTHS ≥3.5, SA% ≥0.8 and TBN ≥8.0. which corresponds to ACEA C3 spec.
According to Porche, A40 should never be used in those engines.

 

[BAJA_05]

It is not a misprint. It says "suitable for." It is not claiming that it has the Porsche A40 approval. Suitable for and approved for are different things. You are correct that A40 is only for xW-40 oils. Check the actual approvals on Valvoline's website, which are SN, C3, dexos2, 229.31/51, and LL-04 but no Volkswagen or Porsche ones.

Good Clarification!!!

 

[kai_fj]

See my second post, where I explained this further. They also said it's "suitable for A3/B4," despite it being a C3 oil. Otherwise, this oil has no actual Porsche approval of any kind, which is something you can easily check in Porsche lists. It is only "suitable," not approved. It is surprising that, despite being an xW-30 oil, Valvoline didn't find it "suitable" for the C30, probably because it's a tougher spec than the A40.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10174599-0001.pdf

https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-forum/1305715d1561597630-porsche-approved-oil-list-porscheapprovedengineoils-1.pdf

Thanks for that - really clear explanation. I do think, however, that we've started talking about two different bottles/products. It doesn't mention suitable for Acea A3/B4 on my bottle (see photo attached to original post). It doesn't even list Porsche under the "suitable for" manufacturers!

Note that I am in NZ and we don't have the SynPower "Xtreme" here so it may well be the same product.

 

[2EHA]

ignore everything on the back of the jug and just check the 229.5 bevo list, you can use it as a reference for A40 applicability

obviously not happening with a 229.51/C3 oil

 

[blufeb95]

ignore everything on the back of the jug and just check the 229.5 bevo list, you can use it as a reference for A40 applicability

obviously not happening with a 229.51/C3 oil

The other thing to note is it only says MB229.5, if it were approved it would say "MB-Approval 229.5"