Question about advices for a Porsche 996 carrera

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Hello guys: First of all I want to introduce myself in this kind comunity. I love cars and specially Porsche brand. I'm one of three admin. of best spanish-spoken Porsche forum site: www.soloporsche.com I live in Madrid (Spain) and sometimes like reading you here to learn more about lubricants. In Madrid we have a few days cold winter temperatures about -4 ºC (24º F), but most days are about 4º C ( 40º F) not more than 3 month, warm weather rest of the year, and a hot summer at 40º C (105º F). Madrid is a not very cold city so we don't need go for 0Wxx viscosity My car is a Porsche 996 Carrera 2004 (3.6 l flat 6-cilinder 320 HP) Porsche always recommends use Mobil 1 lubricants (Mobil 1 is Porsche official oil provider), and Porsche dealers use 0W40 normally A Porsche 911 like mine is to enjoy driving ocassionally. I use it every weekend to go for a while driving in sharp bend roads and enjoy the feeling of a sport car. Porsche recommends oil change intervals in this model each 20.000 km, but I change it each 10.000 km or one time a year (always including oil filter) I use Mobil 1 5w50 because I think that 0W40 is too thin for this kind of engine and spanish climate conditions. The engine have more oil consumption with 0W40 than 5w50 When you use a sport car to enjoy at high rev. you know that the oil will wear before than other engines. Porsche watercooled M96 family engines (996, Boxster) have been suffering a problem with reability since first time they were designed. One of the issues are broken bearing from Intermediate shaft which involves a disaster and a fully blown engine. The Intermediate shaft bearing and other internal pieces could fail for different reasons. Everyone of you know that a good lubricant supports the engine life. There are lots of 996 blown engines and my porsche independent specialist mechanic, and other private Porsche experts don't like Mobil 1 performance. My car is now in the workshop for an inspection and my mechanic recommends Valvoline Racing VR1 5W50, because he says that It's one of the best engine oils for this motor. Other option was Motul 300 V 5w40 Charles Navarro from 'LN Engineering' did a pile of oil analisys to understand more about the engine problems and told us this: What oil should I use in my newer Porsche requiring a "Porsche approved" oil, like the M96 engine? We do not recommend use of most of the Porsche "approved" oils in any aircooled engine, including the 84 and later engines up to and including the 993 that are recommended to run these approved oils. In the search for a "Porsche approved" oil, a quick glance at various Porsche owners manuals for a Turbo and GT2 as late as 2004 showed a recommendation for an API SH or SJ motor oil, so my recommendation is to find an approved oil with at least an API SL rating - an API SH or SJ would be even better. Additionally, try to use a 5w40 rather than a 0w40, as the viscosity with the narrower spread will have a higher high temperature high shear viscosity and should protect critical engine parts better at the upper limits. You do not need a 0w over a 5w until cold start temperatures are under -25C. Do not run any 0w30, 5w30, or 10w30 oil in your Porsche, aircooled engines included! Coupled with Google and armed with the "overview of engine oils approved by Porsche "Porsche approval list", including some oils that no longer have Porsche approval but were approved at some point, here are some suggestions for oils. Remember, we're looking for an API, SH, SJ, or at worse case, SL rating AND meeting the ACEA A3/B3 specification. Remember, the earlier the API specification, the more likely the oil will be to have higher anti-wear additives. One such oil is Castrol Syntec 5w40, which carries Porsche Approval and an API SL rating. Shown below are some alternative suggestions for 5w40 viscosity oils that are not necessarily Porsche Approved, but are of excellent quality nonetheless. I have noted some of these oils meet Volkswagen's 505.01 specification for PD TDI engines, which is very rigorous and in my opinion, is a standard requiring additional protection so much so that Mobil formulated a special version of 5w40 in an API SJ that is specific to the 505.01 standard. If cost was no object and I was out of the warranty period, Motul 300V or Redline would be two obvious choices. Mobil 1 0w40 and Delvac 1 5w40 shown for reference only. HTHS values per published values by manufacturer. We have selected just a few to show: Although Motul Specific 5w40 API SJ has been discontinued, I have run it in my newer VWs with excellent results and have enough oil stockpiled to last a few more years before I have to worry about choosing another oil meeting the 505.01 specification. It had the highest HTHS viscosity of any oil we ever found, min 4.8 to max 5.1 for a 5.w40. Used oil testing showed the best wear results of any oil we have ever run. It was replaced by another Motul Specific VW oil, which now carries a 502.00 approval as well as the 505.01 specification. Interesting point it is the ONLY oil on the market that is a 502.00 oil that meets 505.01 requirements. Currently, we have base-line results (additional results here) for the Motul VW approved 505.01 spec motor oil required by VW. We have been and are currently testing many VW and Porsche approved 5w40 oils and several other non-approved ones to see how they perform in street and track use. Another popular oil highly recommended on the Rennlist forums has been the Mobil 1 Truck and Diesel 5w40 that was an excellent choice up until May 2008, when it was "reformulated" to meet the standards of new diesel engines and hence, is not an API SM/CJ-4 rated oil. As I have stated previously, I don't have the same faith in backwards compatibility of these reformulated products because there just is not the evidence that they will do the same job over the long haul. To this effect, many fleet service related publications still recommend using SL/CI-4 oils in vehicles without particulate emissions filters, leaving the new reformulated oils only for those engines absolutely requiring these low Zn/P oils. Of additional interest is a German Porsche AG Technical Bulletin "2000 Motoroelfreigaben", showing 10w40 and thicker oils are also an acceptable viscosity, which was previously considered as being too thick for these newer, non-variocam equipped engines. If that is the case, Mobil 1 High-Mileage 10w40 or even Mobil 1 MX4T 10w40 may be excellent non-approved candidates, the latter motorcycle oil for track use mostly and not recommended for use with catalytic converter equipped vehicles. The only exception to this are the 2001 and later engines with Variocam, since this system is sensitive to oil viscosity and will throw a CEL if the wrong viscosity is used. Another suggestion is to mix 50/50 Mobil 1 0w40 and Mobil 1 MX4T 10w40, to yield a product in the proper viscosity that is recommended with levels of anti-wear additives as originally recommended by Porsche, with an API SH or SJ rating. So I'd like to know you oil experts to help me about what would be more suitable for my Porsche. Thanks in advance Joaquin
 
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Hello, and welcome to BITOG my Spanish friend. cheers Your english is exceptional, by the way. Anyway, you might want to take a look at Redline oils, they might be better suited to your car and usage than Mobil 1. Another option could be an HDEO such as Shell Rotella. The 996 is a VERY nice car, by the way. wink http://www.redlineoil.com/
 
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juankimalo

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Thanks for your reply!!! In Europe we don't know anything about Redline lubricants, and It's one of the brands that expert from LN (Charles Navarro) advices. I'll do a search in redline's web site to learn more about it
 
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Exxon Mobil / Motul products should work fine for your Porsche. Valvoline doesn't even come close. Doug Hillary knows a lot about Porsche, he might have made some recommendations to other members . If you do a search you might be able to find his recommendations.
 

juankimalo

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Originally Posted By: Billy007
Exxon Mobil / Motul products should work fine for your Porsche. Valvoline doesn't even come close. Doug Hillary knows a lot about Porsche, he might have made some recommendations to other members . If you do a search you might be able to find his recommendations.
Thanks Do you know if Valvoline Racing oil have ester base?
 
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Originally Posted By: juankimalo
Originally Posted By: Billy007
Exxon Mobil / Motul products should work fine for your Porsche. Valvoline doesn't even come close. Doug Hillary knows a lot about Porsche, he might have made some recommendations to other members . If you do a search you might be able to find his recommendations.
Thanks Do you know if Valvoline Racing oil have ester base?
Lubro-Moly is a German oil. Perhaps they are suited to the Porsche? Porsche si the only time ive ehard of the ultra-weird 10W-60 Viscosity.. I tried the Castrol Syntec 5W-50 in my BMW, im tempted to try it again. year Round... (In a BMW)
 
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I`d go for M1 15W50. It`s supposed to be a pao/ester oil,right?
i also forgot about the 15W-50... Has anyone made the 5W-50 their Oil of Choice, for a German car like a BMW or Porsche? They DO like the heavier oils. I had a BMW i know, i never ran less than 10W-40 in it. Seems You CAN use it year-round..
 
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Hi, Joaquin - Welocome to BITOG You said this: "So I'd like to know you oil experts to help me about what would be more suitable for my Porsche." The people that really know best are the people that have designed, make and Warrant their products. In this case Porsche IMO you should only use a Porsche Approved and officially Listed lubricant! If seeking to use a Mobil 1 product other than 0W-40 then M1 5W-50 is a great choice and it is Approved and Listed (and has been for about 15 years)
 

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I would ask Doug Hillary. He has many connections at Porsche and races regularly. He has also done extensive lubricant testing.
 

juankimalo

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Thanks Doug I know Porsche Oil Approved list, but they recommend oil change each 20.000 km or 30.000 km..... THIS IS INCREDIBLE IN A SPORT CAR!!!! Although your reply is plenty of logical sense, you know as a Porsche expert, that M96 engines have so much troubles since they were designed. The IMS bearing could fail and cause a disaster. Porsche don't recognize the problem, and besides they didn't fix the problem with an engine change campaign. They prefer to serve remanufactured engines in warranty period but all of us who have no warranty are suffering the issue (in a low pertentage, but the sold a huge amount of cars). The bearing suffers of a lack of lubrication and finally breaks the balls... So, Porsche engineers are very good qualified, but the account department stopped them. I trust on people who is trying to solve and fix M96 engine problem. "LN Engineering" had invested a lot of time and money in oil analisys and develop of new pieces . They don't recommend Mobil 1 after studying the results. That's why I was asking for information about Valvoline VR1 5W50 and Motul 300 V 5W40. Someone told me the advantages of ester oils and the seal protective elements. What do you think about it? I'm glad to find this fantastic forum Joaquin Porsche AG
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi, Joaquin - Welocome to BITOG You said this: "So I'd like to know you oil experts to help me about what would be more suitable for my Porsche." The people that really know best are the people that have designed, make and Warrant their products. In this case Porsche IMO you should only use a Porsche Approved and officially Listed lubricant! If seeking to use a Mobil 1 product other than 0W-40 then M1 5W-50 is a great choice and it is Approved and Listed (and has been for about 15 years)
 

juankimalo

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Here are two questions: 1- What do you prefer? ester based or PAO oils for a Porsche 996 Carrera? (I'll do the oil intervals will be max. 10.000 km) 2- Does someone have any comparison between Valvoline and Redline? Thanks
 
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If you visit LN Engineering or Pelican Parts forums I'm sure you know that Porsche owners ran away from M1 15W50 in droves when they reformulated from the old red cap and came out with the new silver cap. Base oil used is not what it used to be and not as good as the M1 motorcycle oil base. That was a few years back. Confusing matters for you is the fact that products in Europe are not the same as what is marketed over here. Valvoline VR-1 here comes in both conventional and synthetic but not in the 5W50 over here. Only in 20W50 as far as I know. I'm assuming that you are looking at the synthetic variety. Red Line will probably be hard to find over there and buying by the case and shipping might be cost prohibative but certainly great oil. Same goes for Brad Penn which is a popular Porsche lower cost oil. M1 motorcycle oils are popular for Porches here and hard to beat. Again I don't think product availability and grades are the same in Europe. You have one of the applications that proves all oil is not good enough and also debunks the belief that there are not any lube related failures in todays engines. Good luck with your search.
 
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I would look for Used Oil Analysis (UOA) for 5W50 but I am afraid you won't find much info on US sites. Per the Valvoline US site VR-1 synthetic only comes in 10W30 and 20W50 here. Probably pretty good stuf. What does Charles Navarro say? Also just out of curiosity, can highly refined crude oil such as Group III products be marketed as synthetic in Spain or just Group IV PAO and Group V based oils? http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/
 
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I wouldn't necessarily say that PAO or ester are better than Group III, I would go so far as to say that Group III oils are inherently better than PAO oils. PAO isn't very good until you give it an add pack, whereas group III is a pretty good lubricant on its own.
 
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Originally Posted By: juankimalo
I know Porsche Oil Approved list, but they recommend oil change each 20.000 km or 30.000 km..... THIS IS INCREDIBLE IN A SPORT CAR!!!! Although your reply is plenty of logical sense, you know as a Porsche expert, that M96 engines have so much troubles since they were designed. The IMS bearing could fail and cause a disaster. Porsche don't recognize the problem, and besides they didn't fix the problem with an engine change campaign. They prefer to serve remanufactured engines in warranty period but all of us who have no warranty are suffering the issue (in a low pertentage, but the sold a huge amount of cars). The bearing suffers of a lack of lubrication and finally breaks the balls... So, Porsche engineers are very good qualified, but the account department stopped them. I trust on people who is trying to solve and fix M96 engine problem. "LN Engineering" had invested a lot of time and money in oil analisys and develop of new pieces . They don't recommend Mobil 1 after studying the results. That's why I was asking for information about Valvoline VR1 5W50 and Motul 300 V 5W40.
You are a wise man! You have educated yourself on the weak spots of this engine and not just taken advice "on authority" from the manufacturer. I have had several Porsche service writers and mechanics say that 20,000 miles on the oil is too long for this engine, despite what it says in the owner's manual. And you are right that the Intermediate shaft failures you mentioned are well known and still not recognized by Porsche. On my UOA of my old boxster S 3.2l, M1 0w40 did well. However it's TBN was about 1/2 the starting TBN at 8500 miles so I think 20k miles would have been too long for my use on that oil. I think that Navarro fellow posted it on his website at one time. Depending on how you drive your car, you might want to use an oil with a higher HTHS than M1 0w40. I used redline 5w40 in the 3.2l, which has an HTHS of 4.6cP and I observed that the engine cranked over faster, seemed to rev. easier, and was much more quiet. But those are only subjective, qualitative, observations. I sold the car before doing a UOA on the redline oil. Redline is also used quite often in the air-cooled Porsche racing community where there are many reports of cars running 10 degrees cooler when running redline. I don't have any personal experience with that though. Just repeating from other forums. I'd suggest that whatever oil you choose, do a UOA and see if it is a good fit for your engine and driving style.
 
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Hi, Joaquin - You said this: "The bearing suffers of a lack of lubrication and finally breaks the balls..." There are many myths about the M96 engine family. Most IMS issues occurred in the EARLY engine series and Porsche did indeed replace many engines as needed under Warranty Extensive UOAs conducted in NA around 2002 did not highlight a lubricant problem and all 100 or so lubricants that were Approved and Listed remained so! This extract note from Autofarm and JZ Machtech in England tells the story. Both Organisations rebuild Porsche engines including the M96 STARTS All 996 engines have an intermediate shaft that runs the length of the underside of the block and is chain driven from the crankshaft. This, in turn, drives the twin camshafts on each bank of cylinders. At the end of this is a sprocket which turns on a bearing. The sprocket is retained by a small stud that can break, causing the bearing to fail. At first, this manifests itself as a noisy rattle, which turns into a death rattle as the cam chains come off, leading to further internal damage. Porsche changed the design of this shaft no less than four times during the life of the 996; partly to solve the bearing failure issue, and partly to reduce an annoying rattle on start-up. Later types, therefore, have a larger bearing and a different sprocket designed to mate with a special toothed chain, whereas the earlier ones drove a conventional double chain. Because of this, it is not possible to fit the later type intermediate shaft to an early engine without also using a later-type crankshaft, which will work with the toothed drive but is an expensive solution. So you have to fit another early-type shaft which may, of course fail again. However, Autofarm can modify a 997 intermediate shaft with an original-type sprocket to get around the problem. Both parties are keen to point out that the problems they’ve discussed probably affect five to ten percent of early 996 engines. In other words, there are plenty out there that are running fine. ENDS
 

juankimalo

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My car is being "suffering" a retrofit IMS bearing in my workshop. My car is MY04 and was leaking oil through RMS (rear main seal). Due to this oil leak, my mechanic had to low the gearbox to operate in the engine, and taking advantage of this labor, I decided to go for a IMS reinforce operation. I copied a Soloporsche fellow who did it by himself, and purchased an hybrid balls ceramic compound bearing and changed the center bolt by an extra reinforced high quality steel custom made bearing support. I had to decide the engine oil to apply, and that's why I was lurking here... My mechanic advise me that Valvoline Racing is one the best lubricants he had used, and much better than Mobil 1 5w50 (that I used before). So finally I agree with him. here you have a link: http://www.renntech.org/forums/index.php...mp;#entry170126
 
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