In my opinion viewed in isolation it's superior to traditional GIII Base as to it's natural attributes. As to the Platinum Series it's a bit shear prone in some engines. Doesn't make it a bad oil for others. That's about the formulation though not a natural attribute of GTL (It's not shear prone itself).
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W-30 • 5200mi • 2019 4Runner 1GR-FE VVT-i
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In my opinion viewed in isolation it's superior to traditional GIII Base as to it's natural attributes. As to the Platinum Series it's a bit shear prone in some engines. Doesn't make it a bad oil for others. That's about the formulation though not a natural attribute of GTL (It's not shear prone itself).
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Actually, I'm not. I believe that GTL is awesome and has its place, especially when you're trying to formulate a certain viscosity. I run Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 in my RAM 1500 5.7 HEMI and I'm perfectly aware that I'm actually running a 5W-30 oil that has a pour point of -60C (found this info on the German Mobil 1 site). This Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is PAO+GTL+Good Knows What. But it has a lot of GTL in it. The oil stays very clean, the engine is very clean, it keeps my vehicle and me happy. That being said, nope I don't want 100% GTL base oil in any of my oils. I know SOPUS is pushing it because they have a lot of it, but maybe they should think long term about their customers instead of just quarterly earnings. They make awesome products, I just wish they would pump the brakes for a second on the greed factor.
Isee. This is what confused me on it:
Made me wonder what was 'wrong' with it (if anything) hence my comment.
Do more frequent oil changes help with shearing or does it happen in the first hundred hours of operation? Also, and sorry for the drift here, but there seems to be good conversation going; does pursing a good HTHS stable oil (A3/B4 and Porsche/VW specs are often mentioned here) have to come at the expense of not meeting SN+? I understand the "resource conserving" component of the "+" but am concerned about meeting LSPI preventative requirements while within warranty and this seems to keep the European formulas from being considered, and by that I mean having the correct thing printed on the label even if the oil in the bottle is as good or better than a manufacturer (in my case Ford) specified, (SN+).
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This is ILSAC for you... first, they wanted increased detergency in motor oil to prevent sludge and such, basically "protect those who neglect their cars." Then they wanted lower anti wear additives like ZDDP because they will kill emission devices... though there is no engine test sequence for testing how more ZDDP will kill a catalytic converter attched to the exhaust of a gasoline engine. Again, they did this to "protect those who neglect their cars." Those higher detergents compete with the anti wear additives so engine components had to be made out of harder materials (yes, it's dumbing it down, I know
). Now there is nothing else to take so ILSAC wants to take detergents away as well because ... LSPI. Or to put it in other words: show me where ILSAC has a category for motor oils for high performance engines, like the Europeans have ACEA A3 for example. Because, god forbid your engine lasts for too long or we hang for 20+ year old cars. That's a big no-no.More frequent oil changes won't prevent shearing. Ultimately there won't be anywhere to run for a decent oil and we'll have to make due with what we have. Even the European oils are made to shear, just not as badly as ILSAC oils. It is what it is...
no prob. this is actually some pretty interesting stuff you guys are talking about.
i've told people before that M1 0w40 is my favorite off the shelf 30 weight, because that's essentially what it is - a stout 30 (once it takes the initial shear) with a nice ad pack. i run it in my Civic Si (calls for 5w30 here domestically) and its an excellent fit for the hard driving i do.
i've actually run M1 0w40 and PP Euro 0w40 (see my past threads) and the outcomes were amazingly similar....they seem cut from the same cloth.
I wonder why SOPUS makes QSUD and RGT on the thicker side of 5w30's (approx. 11cSt @ 100*C) while PP and PUP are on the thinner side (approx. 9.8cSt @ 100*C) ? I would use PP or PUP 5w30 in a 5w20 application but I would hesitate to use the QSUD or RGT 5w30....conversely....I would avoid the PP or PUP in turbo applications that call for 5w30.....just my opinion....
I know that this thread has strayed from its original topic but I am definitely learning a lot.........
I suspect the base used has a lot to do with it. Shell's process appears to produce a lot of 3 cSt and less 4 cSt and 6 cSt base. The last I heard the surplus they had was all in 3 cSt.
If you are producing an oil with some 3 cSt GTL you can offset that with a heavier GIII. If you are producing an oil that is all GTL and you want to use a significant amount of 3 cSt and have a limited supply of higher viscosity bases you might end up with an oil at the lighter end of the viscosity range that includes a lot of VII.
Of course all of this is rank speculation with only a little anecdotal evidence to support it.
Don't take that as anti-GTL or anti-SOPUS. In some applications I think they are one of the best choices. In others not so much.
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Thanks Gene.....which SOPUS products do you consider the 'best choices'....and which do you consider....'not so much'?
What are your thoughts on PP 5w30 in a 5w20 application?
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They are very close in viscosity and if you live in a hot climate or are using it in a pickup truck and are towing, then you can and should use the 5W-30. The 5W-30 is within 1 to 1.5 cSt @ 100C when compared to the 5W-20, so it's not really a big difference, however, it makes a world of difference to the engine when you put pressure on it.
I tend to prefer the PP 5W-20 to the 5W-30 in applications that can use it. Most of my engines have a lot of timing chain and the 5W-20 and 5W-30 come out of the crankcase at a similar viscosity. Why have the extra VII shearing with potentially more deposits? I have zero issue with PP 5W-20 in a Ford 3.7L DOHC V6.
If I was putting oil in a shear prone and diluting TGDI engine like the Ford 3.5 Ecoboost I would prefer QSUD 5W-30.
In my Supercharged Mustang for street use 10W-30 or 5W-30 work fine at the temps I see but it has a lot of timing chain and runs 0.81 Lambda (Equivalent to 11.9:1 AFR on straight gas) at full throttle so I would use QSUD 10W-30.
In a normally aspirated 392" Windsor in a Fox Body I would have no problem with PP 5W-30 for a street - strip oil without issue. The OHV Roller Cam Engines are easy on oil with minimal shearing. The same things that make it work as a fuel economy oil work on the strip but these engines tend to run a little warm on oil temp (without a cooler) on the street for 5W-20.
The 1400 bhp (It's cut way back we can't keep over 1100 hooked on a little tire at the top right now) Turbo Big Bore x Stroker DOHC Cobra Motor in the Mustang Cobra Drag Car currently has 5W-30 but really should be 0W-20 at the oil temps we are running but those bearing loadings scare me to death (Don't know why after looking at 0W-3 Pro Stock Bearings) and we can't use the power we have now. It currently has M1 in it but honestly PP would likely be a better choice in 5W-30.
I don't have enough experience with PPU or RGT to feel comfortable making a comment.
Honestly I'm more of a fly by the seat of the pants type. If it looks like it will work, I'll try it. Honestly I've gotten bit way less than I should have. So take that into consideration before you go using something based on my opinion.
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Hello Gene K
You ever run any boutique oils in your drag car ?
Not really. We havn't really had a need. The bearings look fine on what we have
Cams and Valvetrain are no issue as it's a modern OHC engine with relatively light spring pressure although it is more than you would expect with as mild as the cams are. Takes some spring pressure to keep the psi from causing intake valve float.
It's gotten kind of silly how easy it is to make power these days. Wish we had went turbo years ago. All the money I spent trying to keep nitrous engines together.
I don't drive anymore. My back unfortunately can't take a real launch.
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If you can run the Mobil 1 in there and stick with it. Mobil 1 and Toyota seem to be a good match. If your not going to hold on to the vehicle long use any oil. My 2003 Tacoma was like new when I changed valve cover gaskets at 218,000 miles running Mobil 1 after the factory dump. That vehicle has a OCI of 10,000 miles.
we hold onto vehicles for a LONG time once we find what we like. our last SUV, an Xterra, was with us 14 years and we only parted with it because it wasn't capable of safely towing any real weight. i had my old subaru for 10 years, and it only went away because someone totaled it at a light. it wouldn't surprise me if we have this 4Runner for decades.
i've used Mobil for years in various weights (0W-40 is currently in my civic) and i'm sure plenty of their product will find its way into this engine. that said, some of their products are just "ok" at best and there's a lot of other worthy competitors out there at a competitive price, so i'm going to use them if they look like they're up to the task. i'll let you know how the UOA's turn out
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