HPL 5w-30 PCMO Excess Fuel

[Propflux01]

A bit long so please bear with me. This unit is the spouse's 2021 Hyundai KONA 1.6L Turbo. The car runs perfectly, no issues, etc. The OCI on this unit is 5K intervals. It has almost 50K on it now. She drives it mostly to the next town, which is about 20 miles away, 70% Hwy, and 30% city. She also drives cross country a couple three times a year with it. This is where I took my sample. Since her OCI was in the middle, I decided to change out the oil early, and used HPL 5w-30, and always use a Hyundai OEM filter. This way, she would not have to worry about getting her oil changed mid-trip (it is a pain in Tacoma). Her total trip one way is about 2500 miles from Central Arkansastan to Port Angeles, WA. Normal use there, then back to Arkansastan. So the total trip mileage on 90% hwy is about 5500 miles. I decided when she got back just to let the HPL run out till her next OCI. So the oil went 6800 miles. So about 1300 miles was back to the normal home station driving. She drives normally, meaning not a hot rod, not a baby driver. I take a sample and send it to the Amsoils lab. It comes back remarkably well, except for fuel dilution. Now what I don't understand, is what could be causing it. The temps ranged from upper 90's to mid 70's during this whole cycle, most of it was long haul freeway, and I smelled no gas outside the vehicle ( I do smell some on the dipstick, what I feel is the usual smell on a GDI engine). During this OCI there was NO oil added as make up, and absolutely None used at all. ( I made her check it nearly every day, and I checked it when she got back). Any suggestions on what could have caused this? The oil seems to have held up for the slightly extended interval. Just the dilution I'm worried about.

 

[fantastic]

If this is GDi it's the nature of the beast unfortunately. Are you using 87 octane? Some GDI engines are more or less the same here but >5% in 6800 miles is not great. Fortunately if this engine specs a 20 grade you are doing good with using 30 grade to keep viscosity up. If it specs a 30 then use 40 & so forth. If you want a 10k run then 40 grade minimum IMO.

 

[Propflux01]

If this is GDi it's the nature of the beast unfortunately. Are you using 87 octane? Some GDI engines are more or less the same here but >5% in 6800 miles is not great. Fortunately if this engine specs a 20 grade you are doing good with using 30 grade to keep viscosity up. If it specs a 30 then use 40 & so forth. If you want a 10k run then 40 grade minimum IMO.

Well, I used 5w-30, and the Viscosity is still within range. for the most part she uses 87. With this dilution I don't plan on taking it past the 5K again, I'm just concerned with that much fuel. The oil seemed to take it pretty well.

 

[buster]

Oil did incredibly well despite the fuel. No oxidation, wear is great, and the oil is surprisingly in grade.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Next cross country run or whenever maybe a couple tanks of Shell premium that supposedly has more cleaners as well as BG44k or Gumout Multi system. Thinking possibly junk with the fuel injectors maybe getting dirty/clogged some.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Despite >5% fuel and 6,800 miles, the oil is still in grade, the TBN is still >7, and relative oxidation is practically non-existent.

Going by advertised fuel economy and your noted driving habits for this OCI, the engine used 214.13 gallons of fuel and 0.056% (15.36 floz) of that ended up in the crankcase.

- Assuming actually 5% fuel dilution which could obviously be higher
- Assuming average operating oil temp was at or over 205°F for >50% fuel distillation

That doesn't sound like much when put in that perspective. What do previous UOAs say for this engine? (if sampled)

 

[Propflux01]

Despite >5% fuel and 6,800 miles, the oil is still in grade, the TBN is still >7, and relative oxidation is practically non-existent.

Going by advertised fuel economy and your noted driving habits for this OCI, the engine used 214.13 gallons of fuel and 0.056% (15.36 floz) of that ended up in the crankcase.

- Assuming actually 5% fuel dilution which could obviously be higher
- Assuming average operating oil temp was at or over 205°F for >50% fuel distillation

That doesn't sound like much when put in that perspective. What do previous UOAs say for this engine? (if sampled)

This is the first sample taken for this engine. And yes, I am impressed with the oil's performance. I figured with that much dilution, it would strip that oil pretty good, but it's relatively not affected that much.

 

[fantastic]

Well, I used 5w-30, and the Viscosity is still within range. for the most part she uses 87. With this dilution I don't plan on taking it past the 5K again, I'm just concerned with that much fuel. The oil seemed to take it pretty well.

Yes, I think HPL might formulate towards the higher side of viscosity for some of their oils? I agree that this HPL 5w-30 held up well it appears. I've thought & tried to dig into the octane debate vs fuel dilution. I guess I have a theory that 87 octane is more volatile than say 91 so in my mind I'd want that fuel to burn off easier and you'd think it would show lower fuel dilution but I have no other data to back that up. Others have posted better dilution numbers by going with higher octane so IDK. The results on the UOA otherwise look great though.

 

[Titan]

Does this vehicle have an oil temp gauge, or way to monitor oil temps? I'd want to make sure the oil is getting up in the low 200's when cruising on the highway. Although fuel isn't water, I'd think a higher oil temp would somewhat help the fuel in the oil to evaporate, similar to how higher oil temps help water in the oil to evaporate.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Yes, I think HPL might formulate towards the higher side of viscosity for some of their oils? I agree that this HPL 5w-30 held up well it appears. I've thought & tried to dig into the octane debate vs fuel dilution. I guess I have a theory that 87 octane is more volatile than say 91 so in my mind I'd want that fuel to burn off easier and you'd think it would show lower fuel dilution but I have no other data to back that up. Others have posted better dilution numbers by going with higher octane so IDK. The results on the UOA otherwise look great though.

HPL aims for dead center of the grade most of the time. This PCMO 5W-30 has a virgin KV100 of 10.72 cSt.

Regular and premium pump gas both have near identical distillation curves and vapor pressures thus neither is more or less volatile than the other. Any increased fuel dilution with one or the other would be due to fuel enrichment.

 

[Mainia]

As you know when I was on the Kona forum we were both on years back, I was fighting the same issue. My level was gaining up to 1 qt+ at times. I would suck out some oil because it was past 1/2 level raise. Even thought now I purposely raised my full oil level to be 1/2 higher to reduce a chance to sucking air from the oil pan as my car has a ton of suspension work and can pull some good G's. Some Hyundai performance people question if the standard level is a bit low in a performance application. I don't care if I lose 2 hp from windage. I digress.

Even though I used high quality oil from day one ( Amsoil, Mobil 1, Mobil1 ESP, Mobil1 Euro, Castroil ect.... and jumped brands a lot, I still think/know my rings were stuck. What fixed it was running Redline Performance Euro and my fuel dilution went for the most part away after about 1,000-1,500 miles. I would have 1/2qt+ fuel dilution in 80-90 deg summers, winters here Minnesota I would get as high as 1 1/2 qt raise in fuel level in 3,000 miles. I now keep my rings free buy using HPL Engine Cleaner or a run of Redline every year. My Redline stash is gone and I will be running HPL from now on for cleaning where I used Redline. I was running Motul 8100 X-Clean Gen 2 5w-40 with HPL EC. I may still with that for a bit since I am putting high miles on rebuilding my daughter's 1884 farm house almost every day after work and she is 25 miles away one way. I found on my 3,000ish oil dumps even with massive dilution I did not have any over top engine wear. So I just did not get all freaked out about the dilution. I now get almost zero in the summer and 1/4-1/3 qt in the worst part winter. And I am on boost all the time, my engine gets USED. Oh by the way my clutch lasted to 51,000 miles I have a Cryoed clutch/combo pressure plate assembly with a cryoed dual mass flywheel waiting to be installed when I can get this house finished in the next 3 to 4 months.

I don't know if you remember the flurry of Kona posters were getting oil dilution tested by Hyundai and almost all did not get a fix for it. Only a couple they found a leaking high pressure fuel pump leaking. I have a Banks iDash gauge and I see my HP F pump is not leaking as I can see the pressure rise 50 to 75 psi when I shut the car off and the lead tech at Hyundai told me it would drop like a rock or a very early sign would hold at shut off pressure.

You may want to have Hyundai do a check on it or get a obd 2 scanner that can see rail pressure. Getting the scanner would be the same paying Hyundai so buy the scanner, since you can keep a watch on it here and there.

You have no wear, so I myself would not let it worry you one bit as long as you know the HPF pump is not leaking.

OR, it may take a couple of HPL oil changes to clean out the Kona's ring lands. They are very dirty/sooty running motors, so I bet your rings are nicely jammed. Just keep doing what you are doing and it should fix itself in time MINUS checking the HPF pump for leaks.

.

 

[Propflux01]

Does this vehicle have an oil temp gauge, or way to monitor oil temps? I'd want to make sure the oil is getting up in the low 200's when cruising on the highway. Although fuel isn't water, I'd think a higher oil temp would somewhat help the fuel in the oil to evaporate, similar to how higher oil temps help water in the oil to evaporate.

No temp gauge. I thought of that as well and figured with the low water %, that tells me the temp is (should be) above 200. Thing is, the oil level never increased because of the extra fuel (not sure if it would, but I made sure the fill level was exactly on the dash mark when it left, and it was there after the trip, and again when it came to oil dump time). I thought the long 8-10 hour running days would eat some of that fuel up as well.


MANIA: If the rings were stuck, would I not have oil-burning issues? This engine has been superb on oil control. I've never had to add oil to it, or have seen the level rise or fall. And yes, I'm one of them weirdos that check oil every Saturday before the car gets driven (caused by 2.4L paranoia). So far the clutch hasn't given me an issue, but I'm waiting. She knows how to drive it, (DCT) so If it fails it won't be because of clutch burnout as much as it would be actuator issues.

 

[Mainia]

No temp gauge. I thought of that as well and figured with the low water %, that tells me the temp is (should be) above 200. Thing is, the oil level never increased because of the extra fuel (not sure if it would, but I made sure the fill level was exactly on the dash mark when it left, and it was there after the trip, and again when it came to oil dump time). I thought the long 8-10 hour running days would eat some of that fuel up as well.


MANIA: If the rings were stuck, would I not have oil-burning issues? This engine has been superb on oil control. I've never had to add oil to it, or have seen the level rise or fall. And yes, I'm one of them weirdos that check oil every Saturday before the car gets driven (caused by 2.4L paranoia)

Yea, that's what I would have thought too. I always gain oil/fuel I never go down on my level. I think it matters which ring is jammed and could it be more of an issue being a turbo or not?? All I know was 1,000 miles into my first use Redline with ester almost all my massive fuel dilution was gone. That points to me my rings were jammed and running enough Redline and enough HPL EC to keep them open I have never had over top fuel dilution since. And at 1 1/2 qt over level I don't want it back .

I have a relative that has a Kia Soul NA motor and he burned up all his oil in 5,000 miles where he was sucking air and getting starvation rod knock where he pulled the Hyundai/Kia rod alert. He is running Valvoline R&R now and it helping but still burning oil, he changed out at 2,000 miles a couple weeks ago.

 

[Propflux01]

Yea, that's what I would have thought too. I always gain oil/fuel I never go down on my level. I think it matters which ring is jammed and could it be more of an issue being a turbo or not?? All I know was 1,000 miles into my first use Redline with ester almost all my massive fuel dilution was gone. That points to me my rings were jammed and running enough Redline and enough HPL EC to keep them open I have never had over top fuel dilution since. And at 1 1/2 qt over level I don't want it back .

I have a relative that has a Kia Soul NA motor and he burned up all his oil in 5,000 miles where he was sucking air and getting starvation rod knock where he pulled the Hyundai/Kia rod alert. He is running Valvoline R&R now and it helping but still burning oil, he changed out at 2,000 miles a couple weeks ago.

That is why I decided to go with the HPL. It was my understanding the HPL PCMO was as good as the EC30, and figured the trip would be a good way to see how the oil handled this engine. I normally run QSFS 20k oil in it, even though I change at 5k.

 

[Jetronic]

Did you start the car to move it into the oil drain spot?

Anyway, I have my doubts about the measured fuel content, if there's loads of fuel in the oil it smells like someones spraying fuel when you do a drain.

That said, I stopped working on Hyundais in early 2021 but I had to change loads of leaky injectors on them before that. The 4 cylinder cars didn't show symptoms besides smell and quickly degrading oil but the 3 cyl engines often couldn't start with 1 plug wet. Easiest way to catch it is monitoring the fuel pressure on a cold engine that has been started for a minute or so. The fuek pressure should rise after switching off the engine, as heat from the combustion chamber heats up the fuel in a closed circuit. If you have a leak, the pressure will go down.

 

[Propflux01]

Did you start the car to move it into the oil drain spot?

Anyway, I have my doubts about the measured fuel content, if there's loads of fuel in the oil it smells like someones spraying fuel when you do a drain.

That said, I stopped working on Hyundais in early 2021 but I had to change loads of leaky injectors on them before that. The 4 cylinder cars didn't show symptoms besides smell and quickly degrading oil but the 3 cyl engines often couldn't start with 1 plug wet. Easiest way to catch it is monitoring the fuel pressure on a cold engine that has been started for a minute or so. The fuek pressure should rise after switching off the engine, as heat from the combustion chamber heats up the fuel in a closed circuit. If you have a leak, the pressure will go down.

I drove the car for about 6 miles on the highway to get it warm enough to drain.

 

[Reloader59]

Considering the fuel dilution, the report is quite good. As with others, I would go with the 5k oil and filter change. The highway miles are probably helping with keeping the oil in good shape. Stay with the HPL and grade.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Considering the fuel dilution, the report is quite good. As with others, I would go with the 5k oil and filter change. The highway miles are probably helping with keeping the oil in good shape. Stay with the HPL and grade.

^^^^^This^^^^^
For being HPL's entry level formula, it clearly shows it outperforms anything on Walmart's PCMO / API / Dexos 1 offerings for 5w30.