Purolator tears self induced?
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I'm going against the tide and running a purolator on the subaru....
Arco, that's actually a pretty good idea. If a Purolator can withstand your typical duty cycle, then I will be satisfied that all is fine and well in Purolator Land again.
I'm going against the tide and running a purolator on the subaru....
Arco, that's actually a pretty good idea. If a Purolator can withstand your typical duty cycle, then I will be satisfied that all is fine and well in Purolator Land again.
I am not saying they don't tear. Im saying it is easy to make a tear that looks exactly like a lot of the posts I have seen. I am pointing out how close the pleats are. I am switching because of both these things. While I have not found any torn I could see how a high dP with cold oil could tear them. Anyway there was noting new to complain about so I figured why not kick a dead horse LOL....
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Skanky
Well a lot of the tears I have seen posted looked self induced to me. The material is tight by the seam and doesn't take a big push to tear it. Maybe torn from pushing to look, maybe torn from the cutter hitting it, most likely the tool in my opinion. When I was all done with mine this weekend (x3) I was able to push the pleats to the side and duplicate the same tears I have seen here. And really wouldn't a tear from pressure be in the inner fold of the pleat, not across it. Im not saying anyone did it on purpose, what I am saying is push the pleats to the side next to the seam and you get the tear that looks same as posted. As far as looking for tears as I said I ran a probe between each pleat, a dull rounded tip aluminum flat probe that I use to remove O-rings and they were all solid. I was going to go get the tears I made out of the trash and post them but the garbage truck just left with them. Really our garbage goes on holidays, every Monday no matter what. Anyway next Pure one I cut I will post it before and if it is fine I will duplicate the tear and post that.
In fact I will disregard any Purolator tear pics if the can was cut by anything other than a filter/pipe cutter. Anything cut with snips or saw will be ignored by me as possibly self induced. If you really want to cut filters spend the $40 and get the right tool to take the self induced possibility out of the equation.
My guess is when cut properly those with the tears are real, caused by the wide spacing of the pleat at the seam taking a big pressure drop because the rest of the pleats are packed so tight the oil cant get between them, especially when cold. Anyway for that reason once my old stock is gone Im moving to something else. Fram ultra for now.
Sounds like you don't have a clue but I'm not sure anyone cares what is your opinion about how the tears happened. I can guarantee that your idea is wrong and for someone that had four tears in one filter it is obvious even to a first grader that the tears are not self induced.
It sounds like your derogatory statements are off putting and offensive. This member is making an observation, one that apparently bothers you so much that you insult his intelligence by comparing it to that of a first grader. You really should find somewhere else to be a jerk, members here don't need it.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I was thinking what skanky was thinking -as far as reported tears being induced but a poor de-constrution technique. But then we have odd things happening with oil and E10 and gum formation stressing filter media...
Could be. There have been other members here (primarily CPTBarkey) in the past that have speculated that the deconstruction process may induce a failure or make it more prone to tearing. Though I don't think that this hypothesis can be directly shot down, I will say that the first few Filters I opened were butchered and no tears were present. I think the jury is still out here.
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Until I witness my own filters tearing, I will use them.
It comes as no surprise that I completely agree with you. You can't always trust what you see online. Bonjour!
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
LoL ... not this dead horse again. No, I highly doubt the tears are all induced - in fact, I doubt any of them were. Yeah, it's all a huge conspiracy by the Frampires to dethrone Purolator.
And the guys who don't care if Purolators can tear or not can keep on using them, I don't think anyone really cares about that. What some people do care about are fanboys claiming it never happened and is a big conspiracy. That's just plain funny.
Just in case Skanky or anyone else hasn't seen the spreadsheet. And this wasn't updated for quite some time so there are probably 10~15 more reported torn filters that didn't' make it in the spreadsheet.
Torn Filter Spreadsheet [Link]
Before I do an oil change, I always check beneath the vehicle. Zeeosix is always lurking around the corner with Frampire fangs and a hacksaw to make sure I experience at least one "failure" in my life....
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
It amazes me how these many random INDEPENDENT finds on the tears, there is always a few that will keep using them until they find tears themselves.....they keep drinking the KoolAid of marketing.
Ignoring facts and acting like a paid company shill.
With all do respect, You have no idea what you are talking about. Not everyone who eats McDonald's gets high cholesterol, not everyone who has a drink becomes an alcoholic and not everyone who uses purolators will experience a tear, especially those of mysterious circumstance.
Originally Posted By: Skanky
Well a lot of the tears I have seen posted looked self induced to me. The material is tight by the seam and doesn't take a big push to tear it. Maybe torn from pushing to look, maybe torn from the cutter hitting it, most likely the tool in my opinion. When I was all done with mine this weekend (x3) I was able to push the pleats to the side and duplicate the same tears I have seen here. And really wouldn't a tear from pressure be in the inner fold of the pleat, not across it. Im not saying anyone did it on purpose, what I am saying is push the pleats to the side next to the seam and you get the tear that looks same as posted. As far as looking for tears as I said I ran a probe between each pleat, a dull rounded tip aluminum flat probe that I use to remove O-rings and they were all solid. I was going to go get the tears I made out of the trash and post them but the garbage truck just left with them. Really our garbage goes on holidays, every Monday no matter what. Anyway next Pure one I cut I will post it before and if it is fine I will duplicate the tear and post that.
In fact I will disregard any Purolator tear pics if the can was cut by anything other than a filter/pipe cutter. Anything cut with snips or saw will be ignored by me as possibly self induced. If you really want to cut filters spend the $40 and get the right tool to take the self induced possibility out of the equation.
My guess is when cut properly those with the tears are real, caused by the wide spacing of the pleat at the seam taking a big pressure drop because the rest of the pleats are packed so tight the oil cant get between them, especially when cold. Anyway for that reason once my old stock is gone Im moving to something else. Fram ultra for now.
Sounds like you don't have a clue but I'm not sure anyone cares what is your opinion about how the tears happened. I can guarantee that your idea is wrong and for someone that had four tears in one filter it is obvious even to a first grader that the tears are not self induced.
It sounds like your derogatory statements are off putting and offensive. This member is making an observation, one that apparently bothers you so much that you insult his intelligence by comparing it to that of a first grader. You really should find somewhere else to be a jerk, members here don't need it.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I was thinking what skanky was thinking -as far as reported tears being induced but a poor de-constrution technique. But then we have odd things happening with oil and E10 and gum formation stressing filter media...
Could be. There have been other members here (primarily CPTBarkey) in the past that have speculated that the deconstruction process may induce a failure or make it more prone to tearing. Though I don't think that this hypothesis can be directly shot down, I will say that the first few Filters I opened were butchered and no tears were present. I think the jury is still out here.
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Until I witness my own filters tearing, I will use them.
It comes as no surprise that I completely agree with you. You can't always trust what you see online. Bonjour!
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
LoL ... not this dead horse again. No, I highly doubt the tears are all induced - in fact, I doubt any of them were. Yeah, it's all a huge conspiracy by the Frampires to dethrone Purolator.
And the guys who don't care if Purolators can tear or not can keep on using them, I don't think anyone really cares about that. What some people do care about are fanboys claiming it never happened and is a big conspiracy. That's just plain funny.
Just in case Skanky or anyone else hasn't seen the spreadsheet. And this wasn't updated for quite some time so there are probably 10~15 more reported torn filters that didn't' make it in the spreadsheet.
Torn Filter Spreadsheet [Link]
Before I do an oil change, I always check beneath the vehicle. Zeeosix is always lurking around the corner with Frampire fangs and a hacksaw to make sure I experience at least one "failure" in my life....
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
It amazes me how these many random INDEPENDENT finds on the tears, there is always a few that will keep using them until they find tears themselves.....they keep drinking the KoolAid of marketing.
Ignoring facts and acting like a paid company shill.
With all do respect, You have no idea what you are talking about. Not everyone who eats McDonald's gets high cholesterol, not everyone who has a drink becomes an alcoholic and not everyone who uses purolators will experience a tear, especially those of mysterious circumstance.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
So if they're torn from people handling them improperly, why aren't we seeing tearing on all the other filters posted on here? Every manufacturer of oil filter is posted on here cut open, not just Purolator.
Even if the Purolator tears are torn by people opening them, then that just makes them just pure garbage IMO since other filters don't tear from opening them.
Even if the Purolator tears are torn by people opening them, then that just makes them just pure garbage IMO since other filters don't tear from opening them.
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Originally Posted By: Skanky
JK_636, thanks you are proof not everyone is closed minded to different opinions and observations. Your not the only one here like that, just the one who went above and beyond to prove it in your response.
Well done and appreciated.
Anytime!
JK_636, thanks you are proof not everyone is closed minded to different opinions and observations. Your not the only one here like that, just the one who went above and beyond to prove it in your response.
Well done and appreciated.
Anytime!
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
So if they're torn from people handling them improperly, why aren't we seeing tearing on all the other filters posted on here? Every manufacturer of oil filter is posted on here cut open, not just Purolator.
Even if the Purolator tears are torn by people opening them, then that just makes them just pure garbage IMO since other filters don't tear from opening them.
Yep
So if they're torn from people handling them improperly, why aren't we seeing tearing on all the other filters posted on here? Every manufacturer of oil filter is posted on here cut open, not just Purolator.
Even if the Purolator tears are torn by people opening them, then that just makes them just pure garbage IMO since other filters don't tear from opening them.
Yep
Originally Posted By: Skanky
Well a lot of the tears I have seen posted looked self induced to me. The material is tight by the seam and doesn't take a big push to tear it. Maybe torn from pushing to look, maybe torn from the cutter hitting it, most likely the tool in my opinion.
I have a 3" cutting tool, (and I have used a hacksaw in the past as well). Even the cutting tool can be too "tight" so you have to peel back the lip a bit. Still, if the hacksaw was to blame, we would see similar tears on Fram and Wix filters as well... but we don't. So when purolator first starting to see failures, folks suggested your theory but it was abandoned by all but the fanboys (such as CPTBarkley) fairly quickly.
The problem with your theory is this: if you cut around the baseplate, you have about 1 cm of clearance between the baseplate and the filter media. To cut the media with a tool, you have to saw through the filter's label... so even if they made a mess of things,you are not all that likely to cut or push the filter media. For example, this is the first of two failures for me (it has about 3,700 or 4,200 miles on it):
Originally Posted By: Skanky
JK_636, thanks you are proof not everyone is closed minded to different opinions and observations. Your not the only one here like that, just the one who went above and beyond to prove it in your response.
Well done and appreciated.
^^^ I would be cafeful with that statement. jk_636 has been the poster-child of blind fanboyism in the face of empirical evidence. Read around on some of the torn filter threads before you hook your name to his/hers.
ARCO: let me know how your Subie does. I would short-OCI this one as I had a failure as early as 3,010 for '99OB
Well a lot of the tears I have seen posted looked self induced to me. The material is tight by the seam and doesn't take a big push to tear it. Maybe torn from pushing to look, maybe torn from the cutter hitting it, most likely the tool in my opinion.
I have a 3" cutting tool, (and I have used a hacksaw in the past as well). Even the cutting tool can be too "tight" so you have to peel back the lip a bit. Still, if the hacksaw was to blame, we would see similar tears on Fram and Wix filters as well... but we don't. So when purolator first starting to see failures, folks suggested your theory but it was abandoned by all but the fanboys (such as CPTBarkley) fairly quickly.
The problem with your theory is this: if you cut around the baseplate, you have about 1 cm of clearance between the baseplate and the filter media. To cut the media with a tool, you have to saw through the filter's label... so even if they made a mess of things,you are not all that likely to cut or push the filter media. For example, this is the first of two failures for me (it has about 3,700 or 4,200 miles on it):
Originally Posted By: Skanky
JK_636, thanks you are proof not everyone is closed minded to different opinions and observations. Your not the only one here like that, just the one who went above and beyond to prove it in your response.
Well done and appreciated.
^^^ I would be cafeful with that statement. jk_636 has been the poster-child of blind fanboyism in the face of empirical evidence. Read around on some of the torn filter threads before you hook your name to his/hers.
ARCO: let me know how your Subie does. I would short-OCI this one as I had a failure as early as 3,010 for '99OB
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In fact I will disregard any Purolator tear pics if the can was cut by anything other than a filter/pipe cutter. Anything cut with snips or saw will be ignored by me as possibly self induced. If you really want to cut filters spend the $40 and get the right tool to take the self induced possibility out of the equation.
Why would anyone pay $40 so you care about their cut open filter?
In fact I will disregard any Purolator tear pics if the can was cut by anything other than a filter/pipe cutter. Anything cut with snips or saw will be ignored by me as possibly self induced. If you really want to cut filters spend the $40 and get the right tool to take the self induced possibility out of the equation.
Why would anyone pay $40 so you care about their cut open filter?
Im not running "fuel filter " sized filters anymore. I see that as a issue through experience. I just jumped on the bigger is better bandwagon after engine noise problems with the tiny made in china NISSAN filters. All these noises go away with a good filter (Honda pcx-004). Im hoping the hyundia kia filter is good too as they are less expensive than the Honda filtech.
I cut mine at the seam as well, requiring some prying on the baseplate because the lip gets turned over slightly. The element is far away from the can seam if that's where it is cut.
The cut pure one also shows the extra wide end caps Purolator uses, with the element much narrower, sometimes not even centered on the end caps. Just for that weirdness of design alone I wouldn't buy one let alone all the other problems. Good thing some one back in time said "I'm going to cut an oil filter open" even though everyone around him said "that's nuts."
The cut pure one also shows the extra wide end caps Purolator uses, with the element much narrower, sometimes not even centered on the end caps. Just for that weirdness of design alone I wouldn't buy one let alone all the other problems. Good thing some one back in time said "I'm going to cut an oil filter open" even though everyone around him said "that's nuts."
looks like a dent in the pleat just below the tear to me? Prying LOL... no way anyone has ever touched the elements... And really read the whole post, I said it could be possible, I also said I feel they are mostly tearing under normal use. I also said I was not going to keep using them due to the pleats packed too tight and the seam is stretched adding to the possibility of tearing.
Im not saying I like the fing design, anything but...
Don't buy the proper tool, I could care less I just will disregard any with tears cut with snips, chisel, saw etc... it takes about 20 seconds to cut one with the correct tool, no prying required.
Im not saying I like the fing design, anything but...
Don't buy the proper tool, I could care less I just will disregard any with tears cut with snips, chisel, saw etc... it takes about 20 seconds to cut one with the correct tool, no prying required.
Originally Posted By: Skanky
Don't buy the proper tool, I could care less I just will disregard any with tears cut with snips, chisel, saw etc... it takes about 20 seconds to cut one with the correct tool, no prying required.
Except one might have to pry back the crimp if they cut immediately below the outer baseplate. The outer can is crimped and makes a nice guide for the pipe cutter.
Still, the media is pretty obvious when it is cut/touched by whatever is touching it... and purolator fails along the seam each and every time with this tear. The chance of the "bad cut" always happening at the seam is highly unlikely.
FYI, the last time I check, Harbor Freight stopped carrying the tool of choice for many BITOG folks.
Don't buy the proper tool, I could care less I just will disregard any with tears cut with snips, chisel, saw etc... it takes about 20 seconds to cut one with the correct tool, no prying required.
Except one might have to pry back the crimp if they cut immediately below the outer baseplate. The outer can is crimped and makes a nice guide for the pipe cutter.
Still, the media is pretty obvious when it is cut/touched by whatever is touching it... and purolator fails along the seam each and every time with this tear. The chance of the "bad cut" always happening at the seam is highly unlikely.
FYI, the last time I check, Harbor Freight stopped carrying the tool of choice for many BITOG folks.
Cartridge style filters have failed as well.
Here is a couple of pictures of my cartridge style Purolator classics that failed. The media seems to have lost it's strength and was pushed in around the centre cage of the filter. I counted 28 holes. I don't buy them any more.
Here is a couple of pictures of my cartridge style Purolator classics that failed. The media seems to have lost it's strength and was pushed in around the centre cage of the filter. I counted 28 holes. I don't buy them any more.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
^^^ I would be cafeful with that statement. jk_636 has been the poster-child of blind fanboyism in the face of empirical evidence. Read around on some of the torn filter threads before you hook your name to his/hers.
Empirical evidence? You mean all the filters I have posted that are tear free? All the Purolator products I have used that havent failed? All the filters that should have exploded and destroyed my engine years ago? Oh wait...I forgot that the only time evidence on here is empirical is when you are the one who provides it.
It isn't blind fanboyism to support a product that has never failed you. It is absurd however, to "caution" a member to not "hook" their name to anothers. Grow up and get a life. This school yard nonsense has got to stop.
Skanky, no one here should be cautioned against engaging in conversation to any member on this site. This site is here for enthusiasts of all sides to come together and discuss/debate the merits or flaws of automotive products. Those that advocate ostracising other members are nothing more than petty, arrogant or just plain dumb. If we all agreed this site would be a terribly boring place. Imagine, we would all just be sitting around, talking about nothing but how great Fram Ultras...I mean...wait a second...
^^^ I would be cafeful with that statement. jk_636 has been the poster-child of blind fanboyism in the face of empirical evidence. Read around on some of the torn filter threads before you hook your name to his/hers.
Empirical evidence? You mean all the filters I have posted that are tear free? All the Purolator products I have used that havent failed? All the filters that should have exploded and destroyed my engine years ago? Oh wait...I forgot that the only time evidence on here is empirical is when you are the one who provides it.
It isn't blind fanboyism to support a product that has never failed you. It is absurd however, to "caution" a member to not "hook" their name to anothers. Grow up and get a life. This school yard nonsense has got to stop.
Skanky, no one here should be cautioned against engaging in conversation to any member on this site. This site is here for enthusiasts of all sides to come together and discuss/debate the merits or flaws of automotive products. Those that advocate ostracising other members are nothing more than petty, arrogant or just plain dumb. If we all agreed this site would be a terribly boring place. Imagine, we would all just be sitting around, talking about nothing but how great Fram Ultras...I mean...wait a second...
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
^^^ I would be cafeful with that statement. jk_636 has been the poster-child of blind fanboyism in the face of empirical evidence. Read around on some of the torn filter threads before you hook your name to his/hers.
Empirical evidence? You mean all the filters I have posted that are tear free? All the Purolator products I have used that havent failed? All the filters that should have exploded and destroyed my engine years ago? Oh wait...I forgot that the only time evidence on here is empirical is when you are the one who provides it.
So the experience of just one guy over-rides all the reported tears of multiple guys here? Wow, I'm convinced now ... how was I so "blind". LoL
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
^^^ I would be cafeful with that statement. jk_636 has been the poster-child of blind fanboyism in the face of empirical evidence. Read around on some of the torn filter threads before you hook your name to his/hers.
Empirical evidence? You mean all the filters I have posted that are tear free? All the Purolator products I have used that havent failed? All the filters that should have exploded and destroyed my engine years ago? Oh wait...I forgot that the only time evidence on here is empirical is when you are the one who provides it.
So the experience of just one guy over-rides all the reported tears of multiple guys here? Wow, I'm convinced now ... how was I so "blind". LoL
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