Purolator round holes, returning?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I asked jay if fram was ever going to be using louvers and he said NO but when i e mailed him saying someone saw the fram filters with louvers and asked him whats up with that he never wrote back,maybe he just don't know ...The other day i took some pictures of fram oil filters with what looked to me to be louvers and i will have them posted soon.. If the ultras start with louvers im going with a quality Chinese filter a number of shops are using.. Im all about flow after being in the engine business all my life i know flow rules! Without flow your engine stops, period!
As for the GM techs the two i know use a/c delco on their own vehicles.. Sayjac use whatever filter that makes you happy im saying here what GM taught us in their mandatory classes we take because we did some of their rebuilding paid for by them. You have to believe what you want.. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands my friend.. Just curious what filters do you use?
 
Originally Posted By: rrounds
Here is what Donaldson says about the center tube
"Inner Liner
Donaldson’s spiral wound construction
allows more flow area without
compromising the collapse strength.
Sharp edges on holes of competitive
tubes can cause media to tear during
pleat movement.
Donaldson’s louver design has hundreds
more flow openings then competitors.
The louvers are pushed in towards the
inner tube, the surface of which media
come in contact with is smooth and pleat
tip wear is eliminated."
https://www.donaldson.com/content/dam/do...oduct-Guide.pdf
I think its on page 6 or 7 on the pdf

ROD


Donaldson and Hastings oil filters are solidly constructed.

A lot of commercial oil filter manufacturers could learn something from Clarcor.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: rrounds
Here is what Donaldson says about the center tube
"Inner Liner
Donaldson’s spiral wound construction
allows more flow area without
compromising the collapse strength.
Sharp edges on holes of competitive
tubes can cause media to tear during
pleat movement.
Donaldson’s louver design has hundreds
more flow openings then competitors.
The louvers are pushed in towards the
inner tube, the surface of which media
come in contact with is smooth and pleat
tip wear is eliminated."
https://www.donaldson.com/content/dam/do...oduct-Guide.pdf
I think its on page 6 or 7 on the pdf

ROD


Donaldson and Hastings oil filters are solidly constructed.

A lot of commercial oil filter manufacturers could learn something from Clarcor.

I use Baldwin filters and they are made the same way, I think most commercial filters are made with the louvered center tubes.

ROD
 
im not good with change...lol
It took me a long time for zee0six and Motorking to convince me to use an ultra but these louvers look very restrictive to me..Im thinking of putting together two center tubes one with louvers and one with the good old round holes and a thick hose attached to a large funnel to see which one empties faster into a pail.. If i do this i will video tape it and post it here and on you tube..
i would be surprised if i am wrong but if i am i will admit it..
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
im not good with change...lol
It took me a long time for zee0six and Motorking to convince me to use an ultra but these louvers look very restrictive to me..Im thinking of putting together two center tubes one with louvers and one with the good old round holes and a thick hose attached to a large funnel to see which one empties faster into a pail.. If i do this i will video tape it and post it here and on you tube..
i would be surprised if i am wrong but if i am i will admit it..


Do that experiment to prove to yourself that more flow area means it's easier for oil to pass through.

Like said a dozen times, louvers will be just fine and even flow better IF they are made correctly.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
....You seem to have a lot of time on your hands my friend..

This from someone posting..."Im thinking of putting together two center tubes one with louvers and one with the good old round holes and a thick hose attached to a large funnel to see which one empties faster into a pail.. If i do this i will video tape it and post it here and on you tube.." And then there's emailing of the Fram rep and taking pictures of Fram center tubes because you can't tell the difference between holes and louvers. Now that's time on your hands my friend. If not so pathetic it would be comical. Well, it's pretty comical too imo.

As for what filter(s) I use, it's really irreverent to the topic at hand. Though perhaps if you took the time to actually read more posts on this board rather post inane thread starters like 'Ultra to continue using holes rather than louvers', you might have a clue about about what filters I use. I post pics of most every one, including one very recently. But again, it's not germane to the topic.

I get it though, when you can't dispute the facts including the posted GM TSB regarding the use of ecore filters you attempted in vain to use to make a point about filter flow. Or that there's no 'science' to centertube holes being superior to a louvered design for filter flow in pc use, attack the messenger. Common tack.

And now you're threatening to go "with a quality Chinese filter" if Fram switches to louvers. 'Quality Chinese filter' sounds like an oxymoron to me. xD

As another poster posted here awhile ago and I have to agree, I'm thinking the statute of limitation has long since run out on the now sold engine shop stories and anecdotes. Time to come into the 21st century and post some actual science backed/related filter data and information.
 
Originally Posted By: funflyer
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Louvers are good.

They are a design improvement.

They orient flow. Oil flow is more laminar with the louvers.

End of story.


Laminar? I think the word your looking for is turbulent as the flow is entering the center tube flowing in opposite directions.


Key on the words "more laminar" in my statement.

I'm not saying the Reynolds number inside the oil filter tube is anywhere below 2,000.

But, if you can follow my thinking here, it's almost as if singly oriented louvers create a more laminar boundary layer in the filter tube analogous to the viscous sublayer that can be observed in turbulent pipe flow.

I may, however, be guilty of reading an engineering value into a feature that is being driven only by manufacturing concerns.
 
There is nothing "laminar" inside a filter when 3 to 10 GPM is flowing through it, regardless of the center tube hole/slit design. It's either laminar or turbulent ... no such thing as "more laminar" in fluid dynamics.
 
Sayjac you really have two much time on your hands..Your funny..You make me laugh..Keep up the good work and use whatever filter makes you happy.. As for the asian filters there are some good filters out there... I said Chinese but i meant asian... Look at the Hyundai filters built in korea those are really good filters.
As for GM they still use e core for the flow they say but someone like you im sure knows so much more than the people building and designing engines...Are you a hands on guy or a bookworm? It seems you read a lot i guess i read a lot also but im a hands on guy for a long long time..
 
Last edited:
Hey, leave Sayjac alone. He tells things the way they are. If you don't like a filter with "louvers" don't buy them. I have no issues with them; but I choose to use Baldwin and FRAM ULTRA/Pro Synthetics
smile.gif
.


Someone had to mess with ya' crazyoildude
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
...As for GM they still use e core for the flow they say but someone like you im sure knows so much more than the people building and designing engines...

Apparently you didn't read the GM TSB linked previuosly regarding the use of ecores. Unsurprising that you didn't. Unlike yourself not my opinion, just facts from the TSB. It starts with:
"#PIP5276D: SES Lamp P0521 Setting After An Oil Change And Or Low Oil Pressure Indicated On The Instrument Panel - (Jun 8, 2015) They are referring to the ACDelco PF48E ecore. Recommendation switch to the ACDelco Ultra Gold, which uses a standard metal centertube, not the ecore cage. Apparently flow not all that hot with ecore in some applications as you state.

As for your now change of tune regarding the "Quality Chinese Filter", your previous posts have indicated that's the jobber filter of choice now at your old establishment. One could only conclude that is what you meant. The backstroke to Asian as in Hyundai/Kia works, except that they have only a couple/few spin on applications, so hardly useful over the many applications out there that the "Quality Chinese filters" fill.

And if being hands on means ignoring science and believing hearsay about a louvered center tube design, not something to be proud of imo. Post some scientific evidence regarding the louvered centertube design backing your hearsay, then perhaps you might be taken seriously. Until then, not so much.
 
You really seem to have too much time on your hands my friend...Im not going to feed your obsession any longer by posting back and forth with you over nonsense..
 
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
... just facts from the TSB. It starts with:
"#PIP5276D: SES Lamp P0521 Setting After An Oil Change And Or Low Oil Pressure Indicated On The Instrument Panel - (Jun 8, 2015) They are referring to the ACDelco PF48E ecore. Recommendation switch to the ACDelco Ultra Gold, which uses a standard metal centertube, not the ecore cage. Apparently flow not all that hot with ecore in some applications as you state.


That does imply that there must be something wrong with the AC Delco eCores. Probably has very restrictive media, and/or the media blows through the center tube and blocks oil passages in the engine. Apparently, GM isn't giving exact details.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
You really seem to have too much time on your hands my friend...Im not going to feed your obsession any longer by posting back and forth with you over nonsense..


Obsession lies elsewhere.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
There is nothing "laminar" inside a filter when 3 to 10 GPM is flowing through it, regardless of the center tube hole/slit design. It's either laminar or turbulent ... no such thing as "more laminar" in fluid dynamics.



Here's some discussion on the concept for you to brush up.

http://www.tvrl.lth.se/fileadmin/tvrl/files/vvr120/16.pdf

Even with full turbulent pipe flow, a laminar sublayer exists, and can be calculated.

Oriented slits could be an attempt to emulate this sublayer inside the tube.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
There is nothing "laminar" inside a filter when 3 to 10 GPM is flowing through it, regardless of the center tube hole/slit design. It's either laminar or turbulent ... no such thing as "more laminar" in fluid dynamics.


Here's some discussion on the concept for you to brush up.

http://www.tvrl.lth.se/fileadmin/tvrl/files/vvr120/16.pdf

Even with full turbulent pipe flow, a laminar sublayer exists, and can be calculated.

Oriented slits could be an attempt to emulate this sublayer inside the tube.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand.


LoL ... who cares about a thin "laminar sub-layer" that still might exists in turbulent flow - that's not the discussion or the point. Grasping at straws I see.

That "laminar sub-layer" doesn't define the flow above that sub-layer which is where the mass majority of the flow is occurring. And that's only for "smooth turbulent" flow where the surfaces are super smooth so a laminar sub-layer of significant size can exist. Go calculate a Reynolds number for a hypothetical flow model and I bet it's nowhere near the laminar range of flow.

And like I said earlier, when you have two louvers facing each other and streams colliding head on there is no way the flow is laminar. You're dreaming again in your own little world.
grin.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Purolator Synthetic pic of new filter
2
Replies
24
Views
9K
Merkava_4
B
  • Locked
Bought a MANN, received a Purolator.
Replies
14
Views
18K
chevrofreak
J
  • Locked
FL-820s with a big hole.
2 3
Replies
56
Views
23K
dave1251
A
Did Fram upgrade their oil filters as in metal ends caps maybe?
2
Replies
26
Views
3K
ZeeOSix
S
  • Locked
Recent Wix order from Rock Auto (regular inventory
2
Replies
21
Views
6K
Garak
Back
Top Bottom