Pulstar pulse plugs.....good or bad??

[Quest]

LOL gtx510!

condensor (aka "capacitor") does not "condense" da charge. in Electrical terms, condenser is used for separating AC from DC, for frequency-related networks and also as a temporary "holding place" for electrical charge and the charge potential will diminish as the electrical charge is being released.

you may be thinking of they typical "air gap" technology in inducing higher HT potential before the spark "jumps" across the electrode. That would still require a fairly high potential to begin with beofore ionisation of air at the tip of the firing electrode can successfully take place....

Q.

 

[Quest]

dailydriver-

While it is indeed true that nothing beats the electrical characteristics when it comes to copper plugs, the very troubling fact with it is that copper (it's actually a copper alloy) tipped electrode erodes much faster than that of other precious metal electrodes, thus a long, reliable service life with consistent sparking behaviour (or more precisely, sufficient HT for the ionisation of air surrounding the electrode area)cannot be warranted as the copper electrode sparking "edge" being eroded away in relatively short period of time...

given the technological progress, change in automotive emission regulations, etc. in modern highly sophisicated EFI engines, copper plugs shyed away and being replaced with platinum and iridium plugs for their consistent performance as well as long service life. While some may still argue that copper plugs excel in many ways than that of platinum or iridium plugs, truth is (IMHO), given that most up to date transistorized (more like computerised control) ignition design, the performance discrepancy between these materials have narrowed to the point where there shouldn't be that obvious. that leaves only service life and reliability issues (which may be tied to the factory offered emissions warranty and such).


Bottomline: unless you are still using points and condensors to spark, otherwise, or very early generations of pseudo-transistorized ignition (that uses points to create the signal to drive the transistor), otherwise, all modern solid state ignition designs shall be more than capable to fire all these plugs with lots of HT margins with ease.

Q.

 

[gtx510]

I could be remembering my EM physics incorrectly, but I think you might want to read up on RC (RLC) ciruits...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_power
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RLC_circuit

 

[Quest]

yes, I understand the pulse power part perfectly, the application of RC circuits (I work alongside with all sorts of R, C, L circuits on a daily basis).

I own and use all sorts of capacitor related testers on a regular basis (testing the DI factors and also noise spectrum over it's usable ESR range, for high freq. switch mode designs and applications).

I tried not to overwhelm any readers here.

Q.

 

[punisher]

Originally Posted By: gtx510
I think it's just a capacitor like Nology plugwires. It "condenses" the charge, less time = more wattage.


Not quite. Wattage is a measure of power, hence has a time component. You can condense a charge all you want to but the final wattage will be the same (or less depending upon efficiency).

 

[Cooper]

Why doesn't someone just buy them and test them? I would, but I don't have the extra cash. I know some of you are more fortunate than I am with having money to test things.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: ffracer

Any plug claiming a plasma spark is nonsense as you would need a third circuit and a very high voltage igintion to generate the plasma.


Technically, every spark contains plasma. The plasma is what makes the spark visible.

I could say that every spark IS plasma, but then you could start arguing semantics and what not. I am trying to keep it simple.

The plasma is what allows the energy in the form of electrons to transfer through the air. Plasma is like a momentary liquid conductor. As the plasma settles back releasing its energy and returning to a non-conductive state, its energy is released in the form of photons. Those photons are what make the spark "visible" or are the light from the spark.

 

[Quattro Pete]

They're all missing the point. As the name suggests, a sparkplug is designed to plug the line...

http://kalecoauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=5

 

[Duffman77]

I have a book written by a Dr. Jacobs (Of Jacobs Ignition components fame) that covers all elements of ignition systems from modules down to the spark plugs. When he talked about spark plugs he was not a big fan of all the exotic plugs available at the time of printing (like splitfire). His favourite plugs were discontinued long ago and were simple plugs that have an internal air gap. The reason was that that the air gap stops current from leaking until enough voltage builds up to jump the gap.

So aside of the pulse circuit [censored], there is something good about these plugs. I may have to try these in the future if the cost is reasonable.

 

[gtx510]

this bugged me for awhile...
to all you people who couldn't see the capacitor in the plug...
you're dumb
http://www.pulstarplug.com/
Quote:
Pulstar™ pulse plugs look and fit like spark plugs, but incorporate an internal capacitor to deliver a spark 10 times more powerful

 

[Spitty]

I love these 'Magic' spark plugs. Someone should make a collection of Spark plug Ad's over the years. Have a look at an old Mecanix Illustrated from the 40's or a 1970's Road and Track
I guarantee you'll find someone how has reinvented the Spark plug (Wheel) Why? Any want-to-be mechanic can change their own spark plugs, and they are affordable, even when grossly overpriced, so Joe Mechanic get the warm fuzzies, and the manufacturer makes a pile of Do$h (at least for a while)

 

[gtx510]

How about radioactive spark plugs?
http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/consumer products/sparkplugs.htm
http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Samples/084.1/index.s12.html

http://www.blackcatsystems.com/science/radprod.html
and I used to run around with glow sticks under my halloween mask. it's not a tumah.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

A coworker of mine tried them on a 99 BMW Z3 convertible with the 2.8L inline six. After installing them (correctly, I was there, and the guy is an engineer anyway), he went for a drive. There was a lot of stumble upon acceleration and had a definitive miss. It was hard to start to boot. He promptly took them out and sought to get his money back on Ebay. Realize that this is just one experience, but just wanted to chime in as someone who has seen them in action first hand.

As a side note, he picked up this BMW for about 9 grand and man is this little car a lot of fun. This thing handles high speed so well. 120 with the top down and it felt solid as a rock. The Germans can certainly design a high speed car. The 2.8 has just under 200 horses, but really moves this car. I have always been half tempted to plunk down 9-15 grand on a lower mileage adult owned Z3.

 

[swalve]

The theory is probably sound, but it's also probably ineffective or even detrimental in a normally tuned engine. Do we even know gasoline likes a hotter, faster spark?

At the very least, I have to think there is a little delay while the charge builds in the cap, and this caused the engine to run like it's retarded a little.

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: swalve
The theory is probably sound, but it's also probably ineffective or even detrimental in a normally tuned engine. Do we even know gasoline likes a hotter, faster spark?

At the very least, I have to think there is a little delay while the charge builds in the cap, and this caused the engine to run like it's retarded a little.


The answer is, yes a hotter spark plasma will help ignition of fuel.

There is no delay for the capacitor. It is in parallel with the spark gap. It charges as the voltage across the gap ramps up to 20 kV and then discharges when the gap discharges. It essentially provides additional energy for the spark corona.

This is not snake oil. Enerpulse developed and patented the technology fairly recently.

US 2007/0262721 A1
Publication Date, Nov 15, 2007
Provisional Application filed on May 12, 2006

Enerpulse Pulstar Spark Plug Patent

The technology and science is solid. There should be no impact on ignition timing, since the plug fires in exactly the same way that all other sparkplugs do. The only difference is a capacitor in the body, near the tip, that stores about .125 Joules of energy while the ignition coil is ramping up to the spark breakdown voltage. When the sparkgap breaks down, the capacitor discharges, increasing the spark energy, and increasing the plasma discharge.

Whether or not this plug increases torque (and therefore power) depends on how good the head is designed and how good the combustion process is. In some cases, there will be no impact. In others, there could very well be gains, especially with rich fuel mixtures, high compression ratios, or direct injection.


There is an SAE paper on the early investigations they did into the technology.

Automotive Ignition Transfer Efficiency

Robert Bosch is investigating novel spark plugs for the same reasons.

"A Novel Spark-Plug for Improved Ignition in Engines
With Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI)", Klaus Linkenheil, Hans-Oliver Ruoß, Member, IEEE, Thomas Grau, Member, IEEE, Jürgen Seidel, and
Wolfgang Heinrich, Senior Member, IEEE, IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON PLASMA SCIENCE, VOL. 33, NO. 5, OCTOBER 2005, pp1696-1702

Abstract—Gasoline direct injection (GDI) is one of the future engine
concepts offering a significant increase in efficiency of automotive
engines. In this technique, the gasoline spray is directly injected
into the combustion chamber, which yields a strongly inhomogeneous
air-gasoline mixture. Hence, it is difficult to maintain
reliable ignition using a conventional spark-plug. In this paper, a
novel spark-plug based on a coaxial microwave resonator is presented.
First, the design of the resonator is described. Then its capability
of generating plasma in the pressure range up to 5 bar
(3750 torr) is evaluated. Finally, some results of gasoline ignition
experiments in a combustion chamber are presented.
Index Terms—Automotive applications, coaxial resonator, microwave
plasma, plasma torch, spark plug.

 

[RI_RS4]

For anyone in the Albuquerque area, it looks like Enerpulse is looking for test cars for Pulstar plug testing for a day. In return, you get a copy of the results and the plugs.

we-need-cars-for-testing

 

[Gary Allan]

Well then ...maybe it's all down to this on why there's not much wide spread use of the reinvented wheel:

Quote:
that leaves only service life and reliability issues (which may be tied to the factory offered emissions warranty and such).


Maybe the 100k endurance test is really hard to achieve

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Well then ...maybe it's all down to this on why there's not much wide spread use of the reinvented wheel:

Quote:
that leaves only service life and reliability issues (which may be tied to the factory offered emissions warranty and such).


Maybe the 100k endurance test is really hard to achieve

Actually, this wheel is not reinvented if you read the patent. Where the capacitor is placed is important. You'll also find that the plug tip is designed for 1e9 cycles or > 100K miles, due to the use of a sintered Rhenium/Tungsten alloy.

(Edited)
Oops! Never mind Gary, I see that you were responding to a conventional plug posting.

 

[Gary Allan]

My main point (actually I didn't make it - here) is that there are some things that do work ..but just aren't compatible with "consumer oriented mass sales" type thing. You can't see an office gal/guy opening their hood up to fill a water container while topping off the tank at a convenience store mega station.

That is, a few things that may yield something just aren't practical (if they work at all). Stuff like Chlorinated Paraffins. They're probably fine if buffered enough ..but the costs outweigh the benefits by a very large margin for their duration of use. You can spend $50 to save (pulling a number out of my behind) $12 worth of gas and boasting rights that you've got the most economical gas guzzler in your group. Meanwhile, you also blow (probably) about a grand in CARB Certified bolt ons that are assured to be one thing, innocuous in the operation of your vehicle. If they really altered anything, they wouldn't get the CARB Cert. CARB is an extortion racket. They make you employ them to allow you to sell stuff to Californians.

So, these may very well be superior plugs and do the job they claim. It just comes down to going the distance and not costing so much that they outstrip the gains.

 

[RI_RS4]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
It just comes down to going the distance and not costing so much that they outstrip the gains.


I'd agree. If fuel economy improved by say 2%, the savings over 50K miles for a car getting 30 mpg is about 32 gallons. At $4/gallon the plugs break even around 50K miles. Their testing seems to show between 2% and 10% fuel savings. I suspect this has to do with the efficiency of the combustion chamber design. The better the design, the less the savings.