There is some truth to the driving spirited idea. I owned a late 90s STS with the Northstar and it ran much better if it was driven rather aggressively (not beat on). If the wife drove it for a while, putzing around town, it drove like [censored]. I feel my BMW drives better if I "get into it" occasionally. SOrry..back to the topic...
PU. What is on my pistons? W/Pics
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Originally Posted By: Hyde244
^ However, if you indeed have been driving 90% of your mileage on the highway, that is the more than enough time to prevent potential carbon build-up from low rpm/city driving.
Let's wait to hear back from Nissan - could very well be a manufacturer error and not user.
Good to know... I drive about 70 miles one way each day. About 5 miles is city.
I have opened a ticket with Nissan America regarding the incident but have not heard anything back as to the cause. I'll try to contact them now that it has been over a month since replacement. Not sure if they'll share the info with me, but it's worth a try.
^ However, if you indeed have been driving 90% of your mileage on the highway, that is the more than enough time to prevent potential carbon build-up from low rpm/city driving.
Let's wait to hear back from Nissan - could very well be a manufacturer error and not user.
Good to know... I drive about 70 miles one way each day. About 5 miles is city.
I have opened a ticket with Nissan America regarding the incident but have not heard anything back as to the cause. I'll try to contact them now that it has been over a month since replacement. Not sure if they'll share the info with me, but it's worth a try.
I just had the shortblock replaced in my 2013 Nissan Versa, it made it all of 6k miles before the supposed "normal" tapping became a knock which got louder as the engine got warmer. Nissan replaced it with NO questions and so far so good. But it surely doesn't give me the greatest confidence in Nissan as I used to have... I hear way to many stories about engine problems lately from Nissan owners...
I too learned that "babying" my cars does them no good! Drive them hard but take care of them. I try to run my cars to redline at least once daily just to keep them carbon free!
I too learned that "babying" my cars does them no good! Drive them hard but take care of them. I try to run my cars to redline at least once daily just to keep them carbon free!
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Noobie
Whats more interesting is that this didn't show up in the used oil analysis.
So this means that used oil analysis are not 100% reliable . . . im not saying they are useless.
used oil analysis reports are not 100% reliable, however they should have indicated that the bearing/bearings were going. I'd love to see the OP's used oil analysis reports. Keep in mind if the OP only had one used oil analysis report and the bearing/bearings went out to lunch after that we can't blame the used oil analysis report for not showing signs. OTOH if he had a series of used oil analysis reports, that would be another story and a great topic for discussion.
As promised...
Note the most recent 110 mile interval was the new engine... wanted to get whatever the dealer used out. I used Valvoline conventional for the first ~1500miles and now have switched to Pennzoil Ultra 5w30. Also, the first 18,000 miles are completely unknown except I know there was only 1 previous owner. I have to think my used oil analysis would have showed some continued elevated bearing metals even if the damage occurred previously. The technician stated the bearings were pretty "shredded." At the very least, my first used oil analysis should have shown some residual metals. I welcome any opinions from those more knowledgeable than I.
I don't think used oil analysis are useless, but I also don't do them routinely anymore. It didn't do me any good in my past two cars other than piece of mind (if they are indicative at all) and I figured I'd just save the 35+ dollars to spend in our booming economy.
If I have a reason to suspect something such as coolant or just wanted to do one for enjoyment I may do one, but I'm ready to just enjoy the car/engine and not worry so much. JMHO
Originally Posted By: Noobie
Whats more interesting is that this didn't show up in the used oil analysis.
So this means that used oil analysis are not 100% reliable . . . im not saying they are useless.
used oil analysis reports are not 100% reliable, however they should have indicated that the bearing/bearings were going. I'd love to see the OP's used oil analysis reports. Keep in mind if the OP only had one used oil analysis report and the bearing/bearings went out to lunch after that we can't blame the used oil analysis report for not showing signs. OTOH if he had a series of used oil analysis reports, that would be another story and a great topic for discussion.
As promised...
Note the most recent 110 mile interval was the new engine... wanted to get whatever the dealer used out. I used Valvoline conventional for the first ~1500miles and now have switched to Pennzoil Ultra 5w30. Also, the first 18,000 miles are completely unknown except I know there was only 1 previous owner. I have to think my used oil analysis would have showed some continued elevated bearing metals even if the damage occurred previously. The technician stated the bearings were pretty "shredded." At the very least, my first used oil analysis should have shown some residual metals. I welcome any opinions from those more knowledgeable than I.
I don't think used oil analysis are useless, but I also don't do them routinely anymore. It didn't do me any good in my past two cars other than piece of mind (if they are indicative at all) and I figured I'd just save the 35+ dollars to spend in our booming economy.
Nice to know that Nissan actually honors its warranty when it has an engine with main bearing problems!
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Rest of the engine is pristine? Lol! Its got two bad bearings. I'd hardly refer to it as pristine.
Yes, but it was "factory clean" thanks to PU.
This is one more reason why used oil analysis are so overrated and cannot be used for anything else other than determining oil life, unless very detailed trend analysis is done and that means a lot of used oil analysis and still only educated guesses about engine wear.
Also, this is a good example how synthetics are also overrated. We often hear that people use synthetics to have "extra margin of safety" or because they protect better. Well where is this superior protection and extra margin of safety here?
If things go south because of manufacturing defects or factors outside of oil system, no oil will save that engine.
It's about time people understood this instead of repeating marketing baloney.
I agree with your UOA opinion. Respectfully, I disagree with your statement on synthetics. I do agree they probably don't provide an "extra layer of protection" unless you push your engine unbelievably. The main reason I use them is for engine cleanliness. I've used quality dinos at 3000 OCI and still had varnish after many miles. With Synthetics (Amsoil and PU) I have had no varnish show up. I realize this probably isn't relevant to engine performance/longevity but it makes me feel better about my engine and I enjoy conservative extended OCIs.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Rest of the engine is pristine? Lol! Its got two bad bearings. I'd hardly refer to it as pristine.
Yes, but it was "factory clean" thanks to PU.
This is one more reason why used oil analysis are so overrated and cannot be used for anything else other than determining oil life, unless very detailed trend analysis is done and that means a lot of used oil analysis and still only educated guesses about engine wear.
Also, this is a good example how synthetics are also overrated. We often hear that people use synthetics to have "extra margin of safety" or because they protect better. Well where is this superior protection and extra margin of safety here?
If things go south because of manufacturing defects or factors outside of oil system, no oil will save that engine.
It's about time people understood this instead of repeating marketing baloney.
I agree with your UOA opinion. Respectfully, I disagree with your statement on synthetics. I do agree they probably don't provide an "extra layer of protection" unless you push your engine unbelievably. The main reason I use them is for engine cleanliness. I've used quality dinos at 3000 OCI and still had varnish after many miles. With Synthetics (Amsoil and PU) I have had no varnish show up. I realize this probably isn't relevant to engine performance/longevity but it makes me feel better about my engine and I enjoy conservative extended OCIs.
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Carbon and to me it looks like your headgasket wasn't just an external leak. Couple of my turbo Dodges looked like that after a blown headgasket. This a 41,000 mile engine?
Coolant would have shown up on the used oil analysis if it wasn't just external.
Carbon and to me it looks like your headgasket wasn't just an external leak. Couple of my turbo Dodges looked like that after a blown headgasket. This a 41,000 mile engine?
Coolant would have shown up on the used oil analysis if it wasn't just external.
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Carbon and to me it looks like your headgasket wasn't just an external leak. Couple of my turbo Dodges looked like that after a blown headgasket. This a 41,000 mile engine?
Coolant would have shown up on the used oil analysis if it wasn't just external.
See, that's what I mean about having too much faith in used oil analysis. Using that logic, the bearings in this engine didn't fail because it would've shown up in the used oil analysis.
Clearly, based on used oil analysis, this engine is fine and the whole thing must be in OP’s head.
Personally I’d rather go with what ls1mike is saying, since I've never personally seen the internals of an engine after head gasket failure, he apparently has and those bearings did not go out on their own.
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Carbon and to me it looks like your headgasket wasn't just an external leak. Couple of my turbo Dodges looked like that after a blown headgasket. This a 41,000 mile engine?
Coolant would have shown up on the used oil analysis if it wasn't just external.
See, that's what I mean about having too much faith in used oil analysis. Using that logic, the bearings in this engine didn't fail because it would've shown up in the used oil analysis.
Clearly, based on used oil analysis, this engine is fine and the whole thing must be in OP’s head.
Personally I’d rather go with what ls1mike is saying, since I've never personally seen the internals of an engine after head gasket failure, he apparently has and those bearings did not go out on their own.
Originally Posted By: Noobie
Whats more interesting is that this didn't show up in the used oil analysis.
So this means that used oil analysis are not 100% reliable . . . im not saying they are useless.
You are correct. used oil analysis are not of much value detecting actual engine wear. The OPs is a good example. Now for coolant or dirt maybe some value, but for metals, forget it. I might do one on my Focus for dirt as this engine has a life time air filter.
Whats more interesting is that this didn't show up in the used oil analysis.
So this means that used oil analysis are not 100% reliable . . . im not saying they are useless.
You are correct. used oil analysis are not of much value detecting actual engine wear. The OPs is a good example. Now for coolant or dirt maybe some value, but for metals, forget it. I might do one on my Focus for dirt as this engine has a life time air filter.
Unfortunately things like this happens. I too baby my engines. I've always told people it's folks like me who's engine will not last. Get someone who doesn't take care of their's lasts them 300K miles. Good to see your back on the road again.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Carbon and to me it looks like your headgasket wasn't just an external leak. Couple of my turbo Dodges looked like that after a blown headgasket. This a 41,000 mile engine?
Coolant would have shown up on the used oil analysis if it wasn't just external.
See, that's what I mean about having too much faith in used oil analysis. Using that logic, the bearings in this engine didn't fail because it would've shown up in the used oil analysis.
Clearly, based on used oil analysis, this engine is fine and the whole thing must be in OP’s head.
Personally I’d rather go with what ls1mike is saying, since I've never personally seen the internals of an engine after head gasket failure, he apparently has and those bearings did not go out on their own.
It depends. Was it increased wear or just a defective bearing?
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Carbon and to me it looks like your headgasket wasn't just an external leak. Couple of my turbo Dodges looked like that after a blown headgasket. This a 41,000 mile engine?
Coolant would have shown up on the used oil analysis if it wasn't just external.
See, that's what I mean about having too much faith in used oil analysis. Using that logic, the bearings in this engine didn't fail because it would've shown up in the used oil analysis.
Clearly, based on used oil analysis, this engine is fine and the whole thing must be in OP’s head.
Personally I’d rather go with what ls1mike is saying, since I've never personally seen the internals of an engine after head gasket failure, he apparently has and those bearings did not go out on their own.
It depends. Was it increased wear or just a defective bearing?
"or maybe I just got a Friday afternoon engine"
Where the Friday fell on a Christmas eve, New years eve, etc
Where the Friday fell on a Christmas eve, New years eve, etc
All of this speculation when it is just as likely that an acknowledged factory defect caused the problem. Combine that with the fact that we have no clue how the car was maintained or driven for the first half of its life. As such, the early half of the miles on the car are an unknown quantity. This renders any other speculation about driving style, synthetics, and normal used oil analysis moot. Driving style is subjective. The synthetic oil used is known to be a quality product. used oil analysis never tell the entire story. If you hear hoof beats think horse not Zebra…
Its a good thing Pennzoil was used, otherwise the debate would be how that oil failed to clean & protect the engine, now it can just be simply written off as you didn't drive it hard enough. Im not saying this is oil related, I don't know. What I am saying is- if another oil was used, there would be no free pass here.
Make sure you only use the reccomended octane fuel. the use of higher octane than needed will create carbon deposits.
That's a mighty big drop in Boron and ZDP from oil sample 2 to 3. Was it a switch from PU in the SM flavor to the SN? That would concern me a little.
Originally Posted By: abycat
Make sure you only use the reccomended octane fuel. the use of higher octane than needed will create carbon deposits.
I'm sorry, but THIS contradicts EVERYthing I have known until today about octane and deposits....that using LOWER octane than an engine requires allows carbon deposits to build up...as evidenced by pinging...and that when such deposits build up, HIGHER octane is required, more often with older engines that were not run hard enough to burn off those deposits...
Here is but one source of my understanding:
http://www.kbb.com/car-advice/articles/premium-gas-when-and-why/
Please correct me if I'm wrong...
Make sure you only use the reccomended octane fuel. the use of higher octane than needed will create carbon deposits.
I'm sorry, but THIS contradicts EVERYthing I have known until today about octane and deposits....that using LOWER octane than an engine requires allows carbon deposits to build up...as evidenced by pinging...and that when such deposits build up, HIGHER octane is required, more often with older engines that were not run hard enough to burn off those deposits...
Here is but one source of my understanding:
http://www.kbb.com/car-advice/articles/premium-gas-when-and-why/
Please correct me if I'm wrong...
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Originally Posted By: abycat
Make sure you only use the reccomended octane fuel. the use of higher octane than needed will create carbon deposits.
Is this true? I have read arguments both ways, enquiring minds want to know.
Make sure you only use the reccomended octane fuel. the use of higher octane than needed will create carbon deposits.
Is this true? I have read arguments both ways, enquiring minds want to know.
You should use the octane recommended for your engine. No more, no less.
Ideally the top end of the engine(combustion side of the cylinder) should see minimal amount of oil. So criticizing the oil for not cleaning the top of the pistons are out of their minds. The top of the each piston might see
If you guys observe the cylinder walls are flawless (atleast as far as I can see with pictures provided) without signs of carbon streaking. To the point where it's mirror like. Does the OP know if there are still hone marks on the cylinder walls when he went to inspect the defective engine?
I'm more inclined to see them pull the pistons and show the cleanliness of the piston rings, ring-lands, and oil drain ports.
If you guys observe the cylinder walls are flawless (atleast as far as I can see with pictures provided) without signs of carbon streaking. To the point where it's mirror like. Does the OP know if there are still hone marks on the cylinder walls when he went to inspect the defective engine?
I'm more inclined to see them pull the pistons and show the cleanliness of the piston rings, ring-lands, and oil drain ports.
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